Browns' John Dorsey: 'The guys that were here before, they didn't get real players'

[Sassy Squatch]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...e_guys_th.html

"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''

Damn, bro. Picking up Hue Jackson's tendencies to throw his own players under the bus.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

Trading out to collect more assets instead of taking Wentz is a huge miss, but let's not act like old school football guys like Pioli and Dorsey didn't completely whiff and miss on their drafts either. It goes both ways. At least in the Browns case they still got something for their miss (more assets) instead of taking Wentz. Fat Scott and Dorsey would just flat out miss players because their egos want that small gadget player in the 2nd round or that raw developmental player with the high sparQ score in the 2nd.

Am I missing the part where Dorsey completely whiffed on a bunch of 1st and 2nd rounders? Was looking at his first 3 rounds and he's hit good players on 8 out of 14 of those picks (could be 10 depending on Mahomes and Kpassagnon). What kind of % do you think most GMs are raking in? Where is the narrative coming from that we've been terrible in the draft the past few years? That's pretty damn good considering we were mostly drafting in the bottom of each round.

But to the original point... QB is the hardest position to find and it's critical. Passing up on 3 big QB prospects when they're sitting in your lap is a crime. We're not talking about passing on Blake Bortles or Andy Dalton. We're talking about Wentz, Watson, and Mahomes. I think passing on those guys for Kiser and Kessler is the mark of a man trying to be too clever and paying a huge price for it.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by fahrenheit

Yes, because Alex will walk away from tens of millions of dollars out of spite.

And everyone ELSE is the idiot.

Plenty of NFL players have walked away from a lot of money and retired Smith wouldn't be the first or the last if he decided to do so. QBs like Smitty make enough in one-season to last a lifetime if managed correctly.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Think there were stories saying his wife was worried about his concussions. I don't think she's too crazy about him sticking around too long. If so, Cleveland is a good place to go because they have tons of money to give him a front-loaded deal. Cleveland is not in total rebuild. They have plenty of talent and they have tons of cap space next year to invest in free agents to fill in any of their holes. And if Joe Thomas is healthy, that OL is better than ours (or has the cap space to make it better).

Once again money is not going to be a huge factor for Alex 'Class Act' Smith at this point in his career. He wants to win a SB... He is going to want to go to a contender and the Browns are not it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Plenty of NFL players have walked away from a lot of money and retired Smith wouldn't be the first or the last if he decided to do so. QBs like Smitty make enough in one-season to last a lifetime if managed correctly.



Once again money is not going to be a huge factor for Alex 'Class Act' Smith at this point in his career. He wants to win a SB... He is going to want to go to a contender and the Browns are not it.

Assuming Jacksonville gives up on Blake Bortles or Minnesota decides to go away from Keenum and Bridgewater, what teams are an Alex Smith away from a legit Super Bowl run? In fact, I'd scratch Jacksonville completely out because why would they get a 1-2 year QB rental for a very young team on the rise?

And that's considering that any team that trades for Alex Smith and thinks they have a Super Bowl team is delusional. Now, what Alex Smith is good for is turning around a team and making them respectable. If Alex Smith brings the Browns to 8-8 and he can do that by 2018, he'll be a legend in Cleveland. That's not a bad way to ride off into the sunset.

[Coogs]

Not sure if this is a repost, or the place to drop this, but this ESPN guy (not Teicher) thinks Buffalo.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...189953214.html

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Maybe sooner.

They've got like $70m in cap space, one of the league's best GMs, and TWO top 5 picks in this upcoming draft if the season were to end today.

Two. Top 5. Picks.

If they can get the QB situation repaired (why not trade for Alex Smith!?!?!?), AFCCG is well within reach.

Not with Alex as their QB

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Am I missing the part where Dorsey completely whiffed on a bunch of 1st and 2nd rounders? Was looking at his first 3 rounds and he's hit good players on 8 out of 14 of those picks (could be 10 depending on Mahomes and Kpassagnon). What kind of % do you think most GMs are raking in? Where is the narrative coming from that we've been terrible in the draft the past few years? That's pretty damn good considering we were mostly drafting in the bottom of each round.

But to the original point... QB is the hardest position to find and it's critical. Passing up on 3 big QB prospects when they're sitting in your lap is a crime. We're not talking about passing on Blake Bortles or Andy Dalton. We're talking about Wentz, Watson, and Mahomes. I think passing on those guys for Kiser and Kessler is the mark of a man trying to be too clever and paying a huge price for it.

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.

There is a scenario or a narrative this offseason that two of Dorsey's first round picks could be cut/traded (Peters, Ford) If you consider that "pretty damn good" coming from a GM that said the Browns don't have any good players from the last regime that brought them Peppers, Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib, better defensive players than Dorsey ever drafted in 5 years here then I will have to agree to disagree.

Sashi passing on Wentz was his only huge failure. Enough to get fired I guess. But they were trying to something different/new than just the old school league crony scout that picks based off the eye test

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Gruden

I read that he wants the NYG

[nychief]

smacks of Haley claiming he could take 40 guys off the street and win more than the two games Herm won.

He better back up his mouth.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.

There is a scenario or a narrative this offseason that two of Dorsey's first round picks could be cut/traded (Peters, Ford) If you consider that "pretty damn good" coming from a GM that said the Browns don't have any good players from the last regime that brought them Peppers, Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib, better defensive players than Dorsey ever drafted in 5 years here then I will have to agree to disagree.

Sashi passing on Wentz was his only huge failure. Enough to get fired I guess. But they were trying to something different/new than just the old school league crony scout that picks based off the eye test

I don't think what they did was terrible. I like a lot of things about their approach, the same way I've praised Jacksonville for theirs. But they tried to get too cute and got too cocky. I think they were trying to prove to the world they could build off a low round QB. Either that or they were sitting around waiting for Sam Darnold, only to realize he's not the prospect everyone thought he'd be. Between Watson and Mahomes, the odds seem very good that they'll prove Cleveland made a mistake by passing on them.

Anyone who praises Cleveland's strategy talk about how they have so many picks. 8 or 9 of those came from passing up on Wentz. Take those picks away and there's nothing real special about what they did. They'd just have a few extra picks, that's it. That's why the Wentz trade is so important. When you pass on a few really good QBs, you better have a much, much better list than Coleman, Ogbah, etc....

As for comparing the Browns' draft haul? Other than Garrett who was a no-brainer... the others aren't exactly guys you look at Nelson, Chris Jones, and Peters and say "man, I wish we had those guys instead." Especially Peppers who feels like he's playing out of position. And that's only on defense. It's not a bad haul, but they had the top pick in each round and again you have to consider that most of that came because they purposefully passed on blue chip QB prospects.

[CoMoChief]

Man it'd be nice to have Josh Gordon...assuming he can stay on the field.

Reid has had some good fortune w/ problem childs. Vick, TO (even though that relationship ended bad, he was good while he was there).

Gordon isn't a TO headache, he just loves smoking weed and can't seem to stay eligible.

IMO the good outweighs the bad should the cost be right.

[chiefzilla1501]

Something else to consider. The browns not only passed on Wentz. They also passed on bosa, zeke, and Jalen Ramsey. These three guys are pro bowlers. That is an absolutely stacked top 5 draft class.

[Quesadilla Joe]

A Dorsey tidbit from Breer. I heard something about people in KC being unhappy with certain contracts Dorsey gave out but don't remember them specifying Eric Fisher's contract as one of them...

Dorsey’s issue in Kansas City was co-workers felt he freelanced with some calls (paying Eric Fisher; drafting Kevin Hogan) and dragged his feet on others (Eric Berry, Justin Houston contracts), which led to festering office politics.

“This job, you can’t just watch tape all day,” said another NFC GM. “You have the equipment guy reporting to you, the video guy reporting to you, you’re managing the roster, working with the cap guy, handling the owner. There’s a difference between being a personnel director and being a GM. They’re different jobs. … And I think with Gettleman and Dorsey, it was more, ‘I just wanna watch tape.’”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/21/fu...nfl-notes-mmqb

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe

A Dorsey tidbit from Breer. I heard something about people in KC being unhappy with certain contracts Dorsey gave out but don't remember them specifying Eric Fisher's contract as one of them...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/21/fu...nfl-notes-mmqb

Deservedly so. Eric Fisher ****ing sucks in relation to what he gets paid.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Something else to consider. The browns not only passed on Wentz. They also passed on bosa, zeke, and Jalen Ramsey. These three guys are pro bowlers. That is an absolutely stacked top 5 draft class.

We got Fisher and jackyll at the top of ours

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

You cannot put Watson and Mahomes in the same category as Wentz yet.

You can't put Mahomes in any category yet, he hasn't played a regular-season NFL game yet.