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Old 07-11-2018, 10:02 AM  
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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ESPN: NFL's best and worst offensive arsenals: 32-1 weapons ranking

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1. Kansas City Chiefs
This has been building one year at a time for the Chiefs, who were relying on players such as Charcandrick West and Jason Avant as meaningful weapons during their playoff run in 2015. It starts with Travis Kelce, who is the consensus second-best tight end in the league behind Gronkowski. In 2016, the Chiefs added Tyreek Hill, who graduated from his gadget return man role as a rookie into a real-deal wideout last season by posting a 75-1,183-7 line. Andy Reid & Co. drafted Kareem Hunt last season, and the running back produced 1,782 yards from scrimmage as a rookie, which was the 10th-best mark for a debuting runner in league history. The Chiefs likely will give him snaps off more frequently with the return of Spencer Ware, but Hunt already is one of the league's best backs.


It's hard to find a team that can say it's paying its fourth-best weapon $16 million per year, and, in part, that's because the Chiefs probably overpaid Sammy Watkins. If we ignore the money and the hype surrounding Watkins coming out of Clemson, it's accurate enough to say that Patrick Mahomes' fourth-best weapon is a 25-year-old guy who averaged just over 80 receiving yards per game in 2015 and turned nine red zone targets into seven touchdowns last season. The upside for Watkins is still as a legitimate No. 1 receiver in an offense that already has two of them.

While we can never truly know whether a young quarterback would develop into a star in any situation, it's hard to imagine what else Patrick Mahomes could ask for than Reid as a coach and this bevy of talent as targets. Every team is susceptible to injuries, and Mahomes will have growing pains, but no offense has as much upside across the board at the skill-position spots as these Chiefs.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Hey man you guys are off-season Super Bowl champs every year
Hey man you guys are worlds biggest cheaters every year!
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:07 PM   #47
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Hey man you guys are off-season Super Bowl champs every year
Fussy britches time for rest and get recharged.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:42 PM   #48
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How many points will the Chiefs put up on the Steelers? I predict 42. Call me crazy, but I think Andy is going to pull out all the stops against the Steelers. Long live preseason boners.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:46 PM   #49
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I dunno about #1. On paper it looks good, bet the team will kick a lot of ass on offense in Madden.

But #1 with a 1st yr starter at QB? That's an awfully big claim to make.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
I dunno about #1. On paper it looks good, bet the team will kick a lot of ass on offense in Madden.

But #1 with a 1st yr starter at QB? That's an awfully big claim to make.
The article is speaking specifically to the amount of talent at the playmaking positions. KC is absolutely the most talented team in the league at those spots.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:21 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
I dunno about #1. On paper it looks good, bet the team will kick a lot of ass on offense in Madden.

But #1 with a 1st yr starter at QB? That's an awfully big claim to make.
CoMo didn't read the article. Or if he did read it, he didn't comprehend it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:53 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
1) Peters wasn't their best player on defense. He played like crap at times last year. Even at top form, he's behind Houston, Berry and potentially Jones. One could argue that some of the defensive issues was because Peters refused to tackle citing a career choice, IE, he didnt want to get hurt before a potential big contract.
You can't claim the defense is going to be better because it's returning players who also played on the defense over the last 3 years, when it's been terrible. Those are not upgrades. That's the #28 (or whatever) defense just treading water.

They lost their MVP in Marcus Peters, one of the NFL's best corners.

Houston hasn't been an elite player for 3-4 years now even when he gets on the field.

Berry, while an impact player when healthy, will be turning turn 30 this season, and he was not able to will bad defenses into the middle third in the previous two years he was able to play. He's a nice player to have but his return isn't going to turn the defense around. That only gets us back to the (also awful) 2016 defense.

Claiming that the defense will be better because it will return some of its better players, now a few more years older, from years past when the unit was embarrassingly bad is a circular argument.

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2) The Chiefs overhauled their defense. Berry will be back. OLB, opposite of Houston will be better, whether that comes from a healed Dee Ford, Speaks or Kpassagnon.
This argument rests on untested players and never-weres panning out, which the odds are always against in the NFL.

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3) Ragland started looking pretty damn good at ILB last year. The Chiefs also got Anthony Hitchens, who will be a large upgrade to Derrick Johnson who looked like he was running in quick sand last year.
Ragland was on the defense last year when it was terrible.

Hitchens got over $20 million fully guaranteed on a speculative deal. While it will help if it can reduce Sorensen's snaps or those going to the other empty jerseys that played in dime packages last year, he was still a veteran player who wasn't good enough to hold off emerging rookies in Dallas.

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4) As a group, the CB position will be better. Peters is gone, but he was also the only CB on the roster worth a spot. Fuller's potential is Peters but even if he's not as good, Amerson is a large upgrade over what we had. Plus, Veach apparently thinks he's found two hidden gems in his stable of young CB's.
Fuller's potential is not Peters, and shuffling JAGs in the secondary is not going to take the defense out of the doldrums.

Veach may have found two undiscovered elite players, but the odds are always against any young player panning out.

This whole argument that the defense is massively upgraded and anyone can see it all relies on a string of unlikely things playing out, aging veterans all returning to their elite form of years past, and everyone staying healthy this time, which never happens.

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5) Safety will be a LOT better as well. They will be adding an All Pro back in Berry. They also added Golden, who is under the radar for depth. I'm very high on Watts to take the FS position sometime during the year.
Nobodies/depth players are not on the field on key downs. Sure, it will be nice to have a warm body this time if Berry gets injured again, but in reality if that happens we're hosed at the position anyway.

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6) Upgraded the NT position with Xavier Williams and Derrick Nnadi, who has elite run stopping potential.

Now, this defense is not likely top 10 but they could end up top 15-20.
Hooray, we're aspiring to improve from #28 to #20. Print 'em
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:13 AM   #53
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A lot of delusional ****s in Pile High thinking KC takes a step back as well.
I haven't been one of those guys... I'm actually a bit excited to see what he can do. Lots of weapons on that offense, so regardless of fan affilliation, if you love big time offense - I think you're going to enjoy KC's offense.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:25 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mile High Mania View Post
I haven't been one of those guys... I'm actually a bit excited to see what he can do. Lots of weapons on that offense, so regardless of fan affilliation, if you love big time offense - I think you're going to enjoy KC's offense.
Yeah - there's plenty of optimism about the offense and justifiably so - a lot has happened on that side of the ball that genuinely does qualify as an upgrade.

But I think we were all around for the Vermeil teams.

The Chiefs will be a lot more fun to watch this year but talk of a deep playoff run needs to be put off until they might be able to stop a legitimate playoff team on defense.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:00 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
You can't claim the defense is going to be better because it's returning players who also played on the defense over the last 3 years, when it's been terrible. Those are not upgrades. That's the #28 (or whatever) defense just treading water.

They lost their MVP in Marcus Peters, one of the NFL's best corners.

Houston hasn't been an elite player for 3-4 years now even when he gets on the field.

Berry, while an impact player when healthy, will be turning turn 30 this season, and he was not able to will bad defenses into the middle third in the previous two years he was able to play. He's a nice player to have but his return isn't going to turn the defense around. That only gets us back to the (also awful) 2016 defense.

Claiming that the defense will be better because it will return some of its better players, now a few more years older, from years past when the unit was embarrassingly bad is a circular argument.



This argument rests on untested players and never-weres panning out, which the odds are always against in the NFL.



Ragland was on the defense last year when it was terrible.

Hitchens got over $20 million fully guaranteed on a speculative deal. While it will help if it can reduce Sorensen's snaps or those going to the other empty jerseys that played in dime packages last year, he was still a veteran player who wasn't good enough to hold off emerging rookies in Dallas.



Fuller's potential is not Peters, and shuffling JAGs in the secondary is not going to take the defense out of the doldrums.

Veach may have found two undiscovered elite players, but the odds are always against any young player panning out.

This whole argument that the defense is massively upgraded and anyone can see it all relies on a string of unlikely things playing out, aging veterans all returning to their elite form of years past, and everyone staying healthy this time, which never happens.



Nobodies/depth players are not on the field on key downs. Sure, it will be nice to have a warm body this time if Berry gets injured again, but in reality if that happens we're hosed at the position anyway.



Hooray, we're aspiring to improve from #28 to #20. Print 'em

So basically every move Veech made is a reach at best- we are doomed to suck on defense?

We did not LOSE Peters- we shipped him out of here. Your assessment of Peters being our MVP is complete hyperbole and does not even come close to what Andy, Sutton, and the front office thought about this locker room cancer.

Most of what you said- could also apply to Every team in the NFL. Vets are a year older with no guarantee they will play the same or stay healthy. Defenses are loaded with "unproven players" - (It is called the NFL draft) that they hope will step in. You are right about the Chiefs defense being terrible and needing a complete overhaul.

To completely assume it will suck again is just looking at it with a jaded point of view. We got younger, faster and more aggressive on defense and dumped our non-tackling CB and replaced him one that is a Team Player. All great moves in the right direction.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:03 AM   #56
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:11 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
How many points will the Chiefs put up on the Steelers? I predict 42. Call me crazy, but I think Andy is going to pull out all the stops against the Steelers. Long live preseason boners.
Mahomes will help against teams like that I believe, where we clearly havenít been the aggressors in previous games against.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:51 AM   #58
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Nate Taylor made a good article about Demarcus Robinson. I was hard on him for his drops week 17, but he didn’t practice with Mahomes for 4 months bc Pat was respectful and worked with the practice squad.

I think he can be a nice Albert Wilson replacement.

This really is the best receiving corps we’ve ever had.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:59 AM   #59
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Some Chiefs fans will be pleasantly surprised by the defense. I guess that's a good thing for them.

If Veach added a good cornerback, I would call this defense a potential top 10 D.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:59 AM   #60
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Nate Taylor made a good article about Demarcus Robinson. I was hard on him for his drops week 17, but he didnít practice with Mahomes for 4 months bc Pat was respectful and worked with the practice squad.

I think he can be a nice Albert Wilson replacement.

This really is the best receiving corps weíve ever had.
Taylor also said on 810 that Conley is undervalued because he knows the offense so well. He said that Alex told him that having Conley out there made it much easier to adjust certain things like Kelceís motions and route adjustments.

Should be a camp battle.
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