Jeremiah Trotter thinks Andy Reid got out-coached in a lot of games

[rabblerouser]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-lot-of-games/

Originally Posted by Michael David Smith

*by Michael David Smith on January 4, 2013, 8:16 AM EDT

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Jeremiah Trotter played a total of seven seasons for Andy Reid in three different stints with the Eagles. And he thinks he lost a lot of games because Reid got out-coached.

“If it came down to both teams were even, talent-wise,*I think the opponent’s team would win if it came down to coaching,” Trotter said on 97.5 The Fanatic, via Philly.com. “Andy Reid got out-coached in a lot of games, man, a lot of big games,” Trotter continued. “Time outs, running the football, you know.”

Trotter said Reid’s offensive style made things different for the defense and the late defensive coordinator Jim Johnson, who ran the defense in Philadelphia until his death in 2008.

“As a defense, we understood we passed the ball too much. You know, there’s times we’re sitting over there like, ‘Man, listen. Just get us a couple of first downs so we can get a break.’ And I’m sure it frustrated Jim Johnson also,” Trotter said

Still, Trotter acknowledges that he won a lot of games during his time with Reid, and he says he would have given Reid a 7.5 or 8 on a scale of 1-10. I shudder to think what he’d say about a coach who was a 1.

Good coaches don't get out coached in a lot of games.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Well, Reid got outcoached by Belichick. Anyone surprised?

Reid has ****ed up plenty of times but This last game was impossible to win for any coach. You can't form a game plan with your best guys out in the playoffs. Losing Maclin alone cut out at a big chunk of the playbook.

We ass raped NE at home bc we had weapons everywhere. JC, Bowe, Kelce, DAT and even Avery when he was decent.
Can't run the WCO with inexperienced rookies or Jason Avant and Frankie Hammond.

Oh, and Sutton got his ass kicked worse than Andy. We couldn't stop a third down to save our life

[KCUnited]

Long time nemesis, Time, out maneuvers Reid yet again.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Well, Reid got outcoached by Belichick. Anyone surprised?

Reid getting outcoached by Belicheck is not surprising or the biggest issue. Belichek outcoaches many of the opponents that he's faced.

The biggest problem is that Reid doesn't seem to know that he got outcoached.

Reid doesn't seem to think there's any problem with not knowing how to manage the clock or not having a hurry-up offense either.


Chiefs' fans have dealt with this before, having a coach that doesn't understand or acknowledge his own weaknesses is NFL death.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Reid has ****ed up plenty of times but This last game was impossible to win for any coach. You can't form a game plan with your best guys out in the playoffs. Losing Maclin alone cut out at a big chunk of the playbook.

We ass raped NE at home bc we had weapons everywhere. JC, Bowe, Kelce, DAT and even Avery when he was decent.
Can't run the WCO with inexperienced rookies or Jason Avant and Frankie Hammond.

How come Aaron Rodgers completed 7 passes for 145 and 2tds (including game-tying 47 yarder to send to OT) to an undrafted rookie practice squad guy who no one has ever heard of because he had caught exactly 2 passes all season??

Doesn't Mike McCarthy run a version of WCO?? He comes from the Walsh tree under Paul Hackett (here in KC...)

[Discuss Thrower]

Not a WCO team, but the Panthers lost their version of Maclin in the preseason yet have won 16 games with Greg Olsen, Devin Funchess, Ted Ginn and Jerricho Cotchery as receivers.

Shouldn't they have just been lucky to get to the playoffs or something..

[Mr. Laz]

I'll put it in a way that people around here can understand.


Alex Smith is just as good at being a Quarterback as Andy Reid is at being an offensive coordinator. Same goes for Smith vs Sutton.

If you hate that Alex Smith comes with a permanent,inherent weakness then you should be just as mad about our coordinators and their permanent weaknesses.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I'll put it in a way that people around here can understand.


Alex Smith is just as good at being a Quarterback as Andy Reid is at being a offensive coordinator. Same goes for Smith vs Sutton.

If you hate that Alex Smith comes with a permanent,inherent weakness then you should be just as mad about our coordinators and their permanent weaknesses.

Can't say I disagree with any of this.

It was also pretty telling that we didn't get Philly Fan showing up here en mass telling us how good of a HC Reid is and instructing us on how we should feel about him in that role.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I'll put it in a way that people around here can understand.


Alex Smith is just as good at being a Quarterback as Andy Reid is at being a offensive coordinator. Same goes for Smith vs Sutton.

If you hate that Alex Smith comes with a permanent,inherent weakness then you should be just as mad about our coordinators and their permanent weaknesses.

Alex Smith was BETTER under Harbaugh.

Won the divisional round in an OT shootout with Drew Brees.

That obviously won't happen under Reid.

Alex Smith is such a 'soldier' that he does EXACTLY what his coaches tell him. Watching that Philly offense slowly metriculate the ball down the field while behind 2 scores in that SB vs. NE was eye-opening...

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

How come Aaron Rodgers completed 7 passes for 145 and 2tds (including game-tying 47 yarder to send to OT) to an undrafted rookie practice squad guy who no one has ever heard of because he had caught exactly 2 passes all season??

Doesn't Mike McCarthy run a version of WCO?? He comes from the Walsh tree under Paul Hackett (here in KC...)

And they scored the exact same amount of points as we did on a lucky Hail Mary.
The Steelers lost to the Broncos almost the same way we did. Best receiver gone and the RB who never should have played but was forced to ended up making a huge fumble mistake which led to their demise.

Rodgers was not the same QB this year without Nelson. Brady went 3-4 , averaged 10 less points a game and lost the 1st seed bc of no Edelman.
Rivers had 18 TD's with Keenan Allen and only 10 in the last 8 games without him including half of those games throwing no TD's (7 of those 10 TD's were on the horrible Jags/Browns).

Quit acting like any QB would have scored tons of points without key weapons

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by RunKC

And they scored the exact same amount of points as we did on a lucky Hail Mary.
The Steelers lost to the Broncos almost the same way we did. Best receiver gone and the RB who never should have played but was forced to ended up making a huge fumble mistake which led to their demise.

Rodgers was not the same QB this year without Nelson. Brady went 3-4 , averaged 10 less points a game and lost the 1st seed bc of no Edelman.
Rivers had 18 TD's with Keenan Allen and only 10 in the last 8 games without him including half of those games throwing no TD's (7 of those 10 TD's were on the horrible Jags/Browns).

Quit acting like any QB would have scored tons of points without key weapons

He completes deep balls. It's the 2nd time he's tied or won a game on the final throw of regulation this season.

EVERYONE has injuries, it's part of the game. Even with all the injuries, he tied the game and gave his team the chance to win.

Reid never gave the Chiefs the chance of beating NE.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Reid has ****ed up plenty of times but This last game was impossible to win for any coach. You can't form a game plan with your best guys out in the playoffs. Losing Maclin alone cut out at a big chunk of the playbook.

Denver made it to the Super Bowl in 2013 without Von Miller, Derek Wolfe, Chris Harris Jr, Rahim Moore, Ryan Clady, and Kevin Vickerson. We beat New England in the AFC Championship Game that year as well.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Denver made it to the Super Bowl in 2013 without Von Miller, Derek Wolfe, Chris Harris Jr, Rahim Moore, Ryan Clady, and Kevin Vickerson. We beat New England in the AFC Championship Game that year as well.

Exactly.

The year Green Bay won, they had 25 players on IR (!!) including the leading WR and TE...

The best COACHES coach the next man up. Too bad Eric Bienemy can't coach the WRs too...

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Can't say I disagree with any of this.

It was also pretty telling that we didn't get Philly Fan showing up here en mass telling us how good of a HC Reid is and instructing us on how we should feel about him in that role.

I hope everyone noticed that i specifically said Andy Reid as an offensive coordinator

I think Andy Reid is quite good in his Head Coaching duties. The locker room is good, the players and organization is solid and respectable. Of course Dorsey is also part of that, but still it's good.

Andy Reid as the OC is much less so. He's pretty much JAG as an OC, nothing special and some serious flaws.

Of course the clock management problem is part HC and part OC. imo. How you want to divide that up depends on personal opinion.

It should also be noted with as old as Sutton is, he is still relatively new as a DC at the NFL level. He was only defensive coordinator for 2 years with the jets. Hopefully Sutton is still learning and could improve in his role as a DC.

I doubt Reid is still learning or improving.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I hope everyone noticed that i specifically said Andy Reid as an offensive coordinator

I think Andy Reid is quite good in his Head Coaching duties. The locker room is good, the players and organization is solid and respectable. Of course Dorsey is also part of that, but still it's good.

Andy Reid as the OC is much less so. He's pretty much JAG as an OC, nothing special and some serious flaws.

Of course the clock management problem is part HC and part OC. imo. How you want to divide that up depends on personal opinion.

It should also be noted with as old as Sutton is, he is still relatively new as a DC at the NFL level. He was only defensive coordinator for 2 years with the jets. Hopefully Sutton is still learning and could improve in his role as a DC.

I doubt Reid is still learning or improving.

Andy Reid is terrible at game management, specifically time management and situational recognition. There's no way he can be considered 'quite good'. He's Herm Edwards with better X's and O's.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Exactly.

The year Green Bay won, they had 25 players on IR (!!) including the leading WR and TE...

The best COACHES coach the next man up. Too bad Eric Bienemy can't coach the WRs too...

Positional coaches is another question we have

Oline coach: haven't see much even taking injuries into consideration. It's been a painful developmental process every step of the way.

WR coaches: bleh, Reid's offense really doesn't help develop WRs. How much can they learn running so many screens instead of the regular router tree.

RB: looks top notch. Our RBs seem to play up to their potential and even over perform. Even with crappy Oline play.

DL: looks good, guys are developing etc

LB: nothing special, nothing terrible

DB: appears to be acceptable. We certainly seem to be decent at teaching Safeties