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Old 11-17-2017, 08:24 PM  
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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*** Official 2018 Royals Offseason Repository ***

It's the end of the world as we know it... and we feel... fine?

2018 is a season of transition for the Royals, or at least it is at this point. Dayton Moore is back. Will he swing full into THE PROCESS 2.0? Or will he try to load up again and make some reload magic happen?

Pending Free Agents:
1B | Eric Hosmer | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!

3B | Mike Moustaskas | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!

CF | Lorenzo Cain | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!

RP | Mike Minor | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!

SP | Jason Vargas | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!

SS | Alcides Escobar | Team TBD, contract TBD
Spoiler!


2018 MLB Draft Picks
#18
#36 (Competitive Balance Round A)
TBD: Compensation Picks for Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain. Will slot between I) first round and competitive balance for players signing over $50 million guaranteed. II) Slot after round 2 for players under $50 million guaranteed.

Comp picks explanation:
Spoiler!


2018 Draft Names to Watch

RHP Kumar Rocker, N Oconnee HS, Georgia.
Spoiler!

OF Jarred Kelenic, Waukasha West HS, WI
Spoiler!

1B Triston Casas, American Heritage HS (FL).
Spoiler!

RHP Carter Stewart, Eau de Gallie HS (Ga).
Spoiler!

ANY Any, Any (Any). Any current top projected pick who slides for injury concerns. Includes current top prospect prospect SP Brady Singer, U of Florida.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:49 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Astro-like

Championship on the horizon
Jeff Luhnow picks:

2012 | Carlos Correa (2nd overall. He inherited Springer).
2013 | Mark Appel (taken instead of Kris Bryant. Ouch)
2014 | Brady Aiken (didn't even sign with team, passing over Trea Turner, Aaron Nola, Michael Conforto, Bradley Zimmer, Matt Chapman, Luke Weaver, top MiLB pitching prospect Michael Kopech).
2015 | Alex Bregman (good pick! His second!); Kyle Tucker (also looks good)
2016 | Forest Whitley (looks good, too, though TINSTAAPP)

My point: Baseball drafts are hard. Being a baseball GM is hard. Even really good ones like Jeff Luhnow and Dayton Moore are not going to hit on every first round-pick. If you can hit at 50 percent or better, you're doing a really good job.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:57 PM   #47
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Baseball drafts are hard. Being a baseball GM is hard.
Oh, come on. That’s a terrible argument.

Being an NBA GM is hard. Look at Sam Hinke. Phil Jackson. Even Hall of Famer Jerry West.

Being an NFL GM is hard. Look at John Dorsey, who so many loved. Look at Combo Guys like Parcells in NY or Shanahan in Washington or guys like Mike Holmgem that served double duty or Jimmy Johnson.

Belichick is the greatest of all time and he’s made several mistakes.

The bottom line is that these other men have been held accountable. How many times has Dombrowski moved on? Theo?

Moore isn’t in the same category. His recent moves should be questioned.

Today.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:00 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
This is like saying “Carl will *finally* get the Chiefs over the top this year!”.

The Royals farm is shit, Dayton passed on the opportunity to trade his stars for high level prospects but suddenly, for the first time in a decade, he’s “Going to get it right!”.

Sounds more like rainbows and unicorns than reality to me.
Dane. I like you.

But when you post about baseball, "I'm a football fan" comes screaming out of your keyboard. It's clear in the way you talk about first-round picks.

The Royals farm system is not in good shape. It does have several promising young guys from the past two drafts. It suffered an abortion of a draft from three drafts ago. And it emptied out its high-end talent from the two drafts before that to make a championship push. It also is harder to keep a farm system stocked in this era, with the hard-slotting, when you're winning (and when you roll craps in things like the competitive balance draft three years in a row like the Royals did, a rule MLB has now adjusted so you rotate between Rounds A and B every other year).

Saying Dayton Moore hasn't gotten a draft pick right in the past decade is obtuse, and frankly, really uninformed. I've provided a lot of context for you in this thread. I've provided that context for you in the past. I'll probably provide it again in the future, because I'll keep trying to help you see reason on it.

Moore's opportunity to get "high-level prospects" for his stars was immediately following the WS win, when they all had two years of control. Or after last season, when the return would have been lesser/lower.

Royals fans have bitched for years about the Royals being cheap and passing up opportunities to spend money and compete. What kind of GM in his right mind would break up a defending WS champ because "We have to think about the future now!" It's lunacy.

And at the trade deadline - when the Royals, BTW, were holding the top WC spot and within spitting distance of the division - they weren't getting high level prospects at that point. They would have gotten guys with more questions or less upside than the players in the Royals farm system you hate so much.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:05 AM   #49
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Oh, come on. That’s a terrible argument.

Being an NBA GM is hard. Look at Sam Hinke. Phil Jackson. Even Hall of Famer Jerry West.

Being an NFL GM is hard. Look at John Dorsey, who so many loved. Look at Combo Guys like Parcells in NY or Shanahan in Washington or guys like Mike Holmgem that served double duty or Jimmy Johnson.

Belichick is the greatest of all time and he’s made several mistakes.

The bottom line is that these other men have been held accountable. How many times has Dombrowski moved on? Theo?

Moore isn’t in the same category. His recent moves should be questioned.

Today.
Being an NFL GM is child's play compared to being an MLB GM. Hard salary cap. Revenue sharing. Straightforward draft system. Free minor league development that allows GMs to pick 21 and 22 year olds who are 90 percent developed for their league rather than having to project 17 and 18 year old US kids and 15-16 year old Latin America kids, and scrounge college ranks for lower-upside guys. The ability to cut players because salaries aren't guaranteed (goodbye, mistake!).

Dayton Moore isn't perfect. He has certainly made mistakes, and the dropped balls in the 15, 11, and 10 drafts particularly have hurt the Royals. But every other one? You look at those whole drafts, and you find good things in all of them. Heck, even in the 10 and 11 drafts, you find some good things around them.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:11 AM   #50
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Dane. I like you.
Duncan, that’s really irrelevant but I like you, too. Your insight is a joy, not only for me but for everyone that reads your baseball posts.

That said, there’s a disconnect. Royals fans, at least from my perception, perceive Moore as Theo or Cash or Domnrowski.

He’s not.

He was extremely lucky to have a Cy Young player on his roster when he assumed the GM role and turned him into a bonanza of picks that changed the franchise.

Before that, he stuck with Buddy Bell, hired Trey Hillman and stayed within his wheelhouse to hire Ned Yost.

All that said, I see Dayton Moore as more lucky than good. Now, there’s nothing wrong with that but expecting him to do it twice is where the line is drawn between skepticism and reality for me.

I can’t see it.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:27 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Duncan, that’s really irrelevant but I like you, too. Your insight is a joy, not only for me but for everyone that reads your baseball posts.



That said, there’s a disconnect. Royals fans, at least from my perception, perceive Moore as Theo or Cash or Domnrowski.



He’s not.



He was extremely lucky to have a Cy Young player on his roster when he assumed the GM role and turned him into a bonanza of picks that changed the franchise.



Before that, he stuck with Buddy Bell, hired Trey Hillman and stayed within his wheelhouse to hire Ned Yost.



All that said, I see Dayton Moore as more lucky than good. Now, there’s nothing wrong with that but expecting him to do it twice is where the line is drawn between skepticism and reality for me.



I can’t see it.

I think Epstein and Luhnow are for sure better than Moore. Hands down. Friedman, too. Neal Huntington in Pittsburgh is really good but less accomplished. Rizzo is good in Washington. Cashman has had an awful lot of advantages but has done well with them. Dombrowski is probably a Hall of Fame GM (but still wasted a decade of Golden Opportunity in Detroit).

What Moore is, is a very good GM. One of the better ones in baseball and certainly in the top half of baseball.

What I think you miss is how much work was done to build up the international scouting under Moore. Guys like Perez and Herrera and Ventura wouldn't have been possible to develop without that.

I think talking about Zack Greinke like Moore inherited a Porsche and he just cashed in it is a narrow view of that. Remember that Greinke talked about quitting baseball and starting a lawn mowing company within the first year after Moore took the job. His staff worked Zack through that, got him to unlock his talent... and then successfully traded him, which is easier said than done.

Even when you have an ace to trade, nailing the return takes skill and good scouting.

Getting Cain and Escobar and Odorizzi from the Brewers was more of a finishing touch than the thing it was all built around. The franchise changed with Hosmer and Moustakas and Perez and with Holland and Herrera and Davis and Shielfs and Ventura, too.

The Myers trade and the Cueto trade and the Zobrist trade were great and timely deals. He deserves credit for those.

He stuck with Buddy Bell because the team was awful, and it didn't matter.

He hired Hillman because he had a successful background, solid credentials, and some upside. It didn't work, but he moved on from it and made it work.

I understand skepticism. Acting like he's awful I don't understand.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:41 AM   #52
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I understand skepticism. Acting like he's awful I don't understand.
Okay, i get that. And you’re totally right, I’m dialed into the football world far more than baseball but I have my guys in place.

But look at the comps: Carl traded a drunken, 2 strike player, who’s now a Hall of Famer candidate in Jared Allen and received an oft injured left tackle and a great but not difference maker in Jamaal Charles.

In the 7 years that followed, the Chiefs won a single playoff game, without the service of either player.

Meanwhile, the Royals traded a somewhat kooky Cy Young winner for a bevy of players (many of whom, the manager knew from his days in Milwaukee).

One GM was fortunate, one was not. If the outcomes had reversed, the KC metro area would have the largest stock of Bryl Cream in the USA.

It’s better to be lucky than good.
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:49 AM   #53
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Oh, so this is the Anti-Chiefs thread on a Chiefs football forum?

What was anti-Chiefs about my statement, dood?

I've been as supportive as I've been since the Pioli regime from the start of the 2017 season, my fears about Veach aside.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:13 AM   #54
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Dane, serious question.

Why did you feel the need to shit all over this thread minutes after it was posted? It seems like you've had some kind of vendetta against Moore and the Royals ever since they traded for Cueto and Zobrist and went on to win the WS.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:20 AM   #55
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Dane, serious question.

Why did you feel the need to shit all over this thread minutes after it was posted? It seems like you've had some kind of vendetta against Moore and the Royals ever since they traded for Cueto and Zobrist and went on to win the WS.

This thread sucks. Total shit show.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:28 AM   #56
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Dane has a personal vendetta against those calling Dayton Moore God.

However, I haven't seen anyone call Dayton Moore God after the past two off seasons. He's definitely got chinks in his armor. But putting together those 14/15 World Series teams was a thing of beauty. Back-to-back appearances without a true SuperStar was something I thought I'd never see from a Royals team.

It was very special to many of us and more special than anything the Chiefs could ever do, as my love of baseball is far greater than my like of football.

For those who feel that love for football, can you imagine the God-like status you'd give a Chiefs GM for back-to-back Super Bowl appearances, including a championship? I'm not sure many would care what happened in the following 5-10 seasons if the Chiefs could win a Super Bowl.

And realistically, we all knew this day was coming. When you build a championship smaller market team, players leave. Sadly in the past two years, between injuries and player regression, this similar roster could not repeat it's success. That's not uncommon in baseball and not sure how that falls on Moore?

It's a similar Heaven/Hell or Purgatory question for all of us. I'll take the Heaven/Hell of the Royals any ****ing day. It was a great lifetime moment.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:41 AM   #57
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Trading Grienke for Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi = Lucky GM

Kyle Zimmer's injury history = Shitty GM

Yordano Ventura's untimely death = Shitty GM
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:47 AM   #58
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Dane, serious question.

Why did you feel the need to shit all over this thread minutes after it was posted? It seems like you've had some kind of vendetta against Moore and the Royals ever since they traded for Cueto and Zobrist and went on to win the WS.
its ridiculous.
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Old 11-18-2017, 09:02 AM   #59
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Jeff Luhnow picks:

2012 | Carlos Correa (2nd overall. He inherited Springer).
2013 | Mark Appel (taken instead of Kris Bryant. Ouch)
2014 | Brady Aiken (didn't even sign with team, passing over Trea Turner, Aaron Nola, Michael Conforto, Bradley Zimmer, Matt Chapman, Luke Weaver, top MiLB pitching prospect Michael Kopech).
2015 | Alex Bregman (good pick! His second!); Kyle Tucker (also looks good)
2016 | Forest Whitley (looks good, too, though TINSTAAPP)

My point: Baseball drafts are hard. Being a baseball GM is hard. Even really good ones like Jeff Luhnow and Dayton Moore are not going to hit on every first round-pick. If you can hit at 50 percent or better, you're doing a really good job.
Brady Aiken turned into Kyle Tucker, right? Good job, Luhnow! Correa was also 1st overall and Luhnow should get extra points because he passed on Buxton-- which allowed him to sign McCullers. Lots of people thought the Astros were crazy to pass on Buxton

Appel over Bryant has always stung, but less so now. If only he would have signed with the Pirates a year earlier
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Old 11-18-2017, 09:03 AM   #60
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its ridiculous.


It would be nice if the thread could be about the royals offseason moves and information.
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