Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dog fighting

GoHuge · 05-27-2007, 06:14 PM

Hopefully this is the beginning of the nail in the coffin for this scum bag. He just makes me sick.

Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dog fighting
By Kelly Naqi
Special to ESPN.com
Updated: May 27, 2007, 5:33 PM ET

He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before."

Our confidential source said he's been involved in dog fighting for more than 30 years. He has trained and fought -- by his estimation -- about 2,000 pit bulls and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

"He's a pit bull fighter," the source said of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys': that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."

On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, bloodstained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger.

This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests.

"I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," said the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area dogs fight in) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit but had a member of his entourage handle his dog while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance.

Outside The Lines

Michael Vick's role in dog fighting's hidden society and a look at why some athletes participate in the brutal and illegal activity are examined Tuesday at 3:30 p.m. ET on OTL.

"Then he started, you know, waving money," the source said. "He was betting with everybody … He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal."

Although the source said he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vick's dog lost. He said Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going to bring a nice sum of cash."

ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations.

In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to The Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000-40,000 people in this country take part in this multibillion-dollar industry.

"I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," said John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for The Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls."

American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5,000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse.

So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this?

"For the thrill of it," said a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf."

There's no official data on just how many professional athletes might be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the past couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been linked publicly to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pleaded guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is serving a five-year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a "subculture" of dog fighting among professional athletes.

Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking. Michael Vick is making large money; he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him.
Confidential source

"You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin said. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light."

If that's true, one reason might have to do with the "code of silence" among dog fighters. The source said many matches take place on rural farms, with lookouts stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with as many as 200 people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public?

"Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who said that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class … And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private."

The source said he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go -- what is it called? UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong."

When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed.

"They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go."

"Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," Goodwin said. "It's a severe form of cruelty."

"The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin said. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized, but the game-bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them to want to kill any dog in front of them."

On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further."

The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy."

While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it, as well … but for a different reason.

"Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source said, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money; he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him."

Direckshun · 05-27-2007, 06:22 PM

I guarantee this drags on at least one year.

No wonder the Falcons are trying to hunt down Green. They traded one of the top backups in Matt Schaub to the Texans, and their starter does this.

If I were the Falcons and I believed this team was facing a potential disaster season, I'd not only grab Trent Green, I'd swallow his $7 million salary. Who better to replace a scumbag than a likable class act?

Frazod · 05-27-2007, 06:29 PM

God, I hope none of our guys is mixed up with this shit. Sounds like heads will be rolling very soon.

And while I'm no fan of PC crusades in general, I've got no problem with this one.

KC Jones · 05-27-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Fighting Neanderthal

Because it's only just an animal.

So are you buddy... albeit one with a conscience or in this case a lack thereof.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-27-2007, 06:53 PM

Yes he deserves to die, and I hope he burns in hell!!/L. Jackson.

Demonpenz · 05-27-2007, 06:57 PM

someone needs to parady that one commercial the mike vick experience and add dogfighting and weed in the water bottle

Frazod · 05-27-2007, 06:58 PM

I wonder - are these dogs ever treated with any sort of love or even compassion by their owners, or just beaten and treated like crap all the time so they'll be mean as hell?

And I also wonder how this compares to something like bull fighting. At least the dog has a chance of surviving - the bull's pretty much fucked from the word go. And is bullfighting coming under harsher scrunity lately? Certainly it has in the past been hugely popular in Spain and Mexico.

Demonpenz · 05-27-2007, 07:00 PM

bull fighting sucks. They don't even give the bull a chance stabbing it to weak it up. **** that.

Wile_E_Coyote · 05-27-2007, 07:02 PM

If true, to think this wouldn't surface eventually is pretty dumb on Vick's part.

If I saw a couple of pitbulls going at it outside my window, I would be excited to see the fight. A staged fight is something else altogether

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-27-2007, 07:03 PM

I was trying to go to sleep last night, and there was a show on the Nat'l Geo. Channel about bloodsports. The first two they covered were cockfighting and bullfighting. Surprisingly, they actually showed action from a cockfight. It was freaking wretched, and I hate chickens.

One of my teachers had us watch a bullfight in 8th grade Spanish. It was one of the most disgusting and tasteless things I"ve seen. I know that's a cultural statement, but to me, it's sick.

Just once I'd like to see a healthy bull get a full run at one of those one who sucks the peniss and make a tapa out of his bitch ass.

Frazod · 05-27-2007, 07:17 PM

BTW, I wasn't defending or trying to justify bullfighting. I've never seen one and have no desire to.

58-4ever · 05-27-2007, 07:17 PM

I really hope Vick goes down for this. But, most of his dogs were "well taken care of". I could see him slipping out of this one.

58-4ever · 05-27-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

BTW, I wasn't defending or trying to justify bullfighting. I've never seen one and have no desire to.

The clips they have shown on ESPN were graphic enough for me.

Demonpenz · 05-27-2007, 07:35 PM

good news is when you type in dog fighting in youtube you get a bunch of sweet air to air combat clips

GoHuge · 05-27-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

BTW, I wasn't defending or trying to justify bullfighting. I've never seen one and have no desire to.

It's terrible. I just don't understand these people and their masochist desires and pleasures

Cock figthing, bull fighting, or dog fighting, you need your head checked if that does it for you.

I hope to God he doesn't slip away on this deal. If he is found guilty this might constitute Goddell's first lifetime ban

05-27-2007, 06:14 PM
GoHuge The Truth Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $10006072	Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dog fighting Hopefully this is the beginning of the nail in the coffin for this scum bag. He just makes me sick. Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dog fighting By Kelly Naqi Special to ESPN.com Updated: May 27, 2007, 5:33 PM ET He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before." Our confidential source said he's been involved in dog fighting for more than 30 years. He has trained and fought -- by his estimation -- about 2,000 pit bulls and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick. "He's a pit bull fighter," the source said of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys': that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights." On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, bloodstained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger. This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests. "I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," said the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area dogs fight in) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit but had a member of his entourage handle his dog while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance. Outside The Lines Michael Vick's role in dog fighting's hidden society and a look at why some athletes participate in the brutal and illegal activity are examined Tuesday at 3:30 p.m. ET on OTL. "Then he started, you know, waving money," the source said. "He was betting with everybody … He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal." Although the source said he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vick's dog lost. He said Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going to bring a nice sum of cash." ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations. In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to The Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000-40,000 people in this country take part in this multibillion-dollar industry. "I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," said John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for The Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls." American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5,000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse. So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this? "For the thrill of it," said a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf." There's no official data on just how many professional athletes might be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the past couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been linked publicly to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pleaded guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is serving a five-year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a "subculture" of dog fighting among professional athletes. Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking. Michael Vick is making large money; he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him. Confidential source "You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin said. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light." If that's true, one reason might have to do with the "code of silence" among dog fighters. The source said many matches take place on rural farms, with lookouts stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with as many as 200 people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public? "Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who said that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class … And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private." The source said he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go -- what is it called? UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong." When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed. "They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go." "Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," Goodwin said. "It's a severe form of cruelty." "The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin said. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized, but the game-bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them to want to kill any dog in front of them." On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further." The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy." While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it, as well … but for a different reason. "Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source said, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money; he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him."
Posts: 3,991

05-27-2007, 06:22 PM	#2
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4403447	I guarantee this drags on at least one year. No wonder the Falcons are trying to hunt down Green. They traded one of the top backups in Matt Schaub to the Texans, and their starter does this. If I were the Falcons and I believed this team was facing a potential disaster season, I'd not only grab Trent Green, I'd swallow his $7 million salary. Who better to replace a scumbag than a likable class act?
Posts: 59,258

05-27-2007, 06:29 PM	#3
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3155085	God, I hope none of our guys is mixed up with this shit. Sounds like heads will be rolling very soon. And while I'm no fan of PC crusades in general, I've got no problem with this one.
Posts: 119,484

05-27-2007, 06:53 PM	#5
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Yes he deserves to die, and I hope he burns in hell!!/L. Jackson. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

05-27-2007, 06:57 PM	#6
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3152136	someone needs to parady that one commercial the mike vick experience and add dogfighting and weed in the water bottle __________________
Posts: 54,266

05-27-2007, 06:58 PM	#7
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3155085	I wonder - are these dogs ever treated with any sort of love or even compassion by their owners, or just beaten and treated like crap all the time so they'll be mean as hell? And I also wonder how this compares to something like bull fighting. At least the dog has a chance of surviving - the bull's pretty much fucked from the word go. And is bullfighting coming under harsher scrunity lately? Certainly it has in the past been hugely popular in Spain and Mexico.
Posts: 119,484

05-27-2007, 07:00 PM	#8
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3152136	bull fighting sucks. They don't even give the bull a chance stabbing it to weak it up. **** that. __________________
Posts: 54,266

05-27-2007, 07:02 PM	#9
Wile_E_Coyote avatar down for remodel Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	If true, to think this wouldn't surface eventually is pretty dumb on Vick's part. If I saw a couple of pitbulls going at it outside my window, I would be excited to see the fight. A staged fight is something else altogether
Posts: 6,009

05-27-2007, 07:03 PM	#10
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	I was trying to go to sleep last night, and there was a show on the Nat'l Geo. Channel about bloodsports. The first two they covered were cockfighting and bullfighting. Surprisingly, they actually showed action from a cockfight. It was freaking wretched, and I hate chickens. One of my teachers had us watch a bullfight in 8th grade Spanish. It was one of the most disgusting and tasteless things I"ve seen. I know that's a cultural statement, but to me, it's sick. Just once I'd like to see a healthy bull get a full run at one of those one who sucks the peniss and make a tapa out of his bitch ass. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

05-27-2007, 07:17 PM	#11
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3155085	BTW, I wasn't defending or trying to justify bullfighting. I've never seen one and have no desire to.
Posts: 119,484

05-27-2007, 07:17 PM	#12
58-4ever The Collective Unconscious Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The OP Casino cash: $9520422	I really hope Vick goes down for this. But, most of his dogs were "well taken care of". I could see him slipping out of this one.
Posts: 10,425

05-27-2007, 07:35 PM	#14
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3152136	good news is when you type in dog fighting in youtube you get a bunch of sweet air to air combat clips __________________
Posts: 54,266