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Old 12-14-2012, 11:09 AM  
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Connecticut school shooting: 18 children among 27 dead

'Close to 20' dead in Connecticut school shooting, source says
Newtown, Connecticut (CNN) -- Nearly 20 people died Friday in an elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

At least 10 of the dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School were children, the source said. At a news conference Friday afternoon, state police Lt. Paul Vance would say only that there had been "several fatalities."

The school was secure, and the public was not in danger, Vance said.

"Why? Why?" one woman wailed as she walked up a wooded roadway leading from the school.

A parent who was inside the school at the time of the attack said she heard what sounded like at least 100 rounds being fired. She said she saw two school employees who had died.

'I hope my mom is ok': Tweets from the Connecticut school shooting

Hospital officials in neighboring Danbury said they were treating three people wounded in the shooting. Danbury Mayor Mark Boughton said the victims were in "very serious" condition.

The shooter is dead, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN's Susan Candiotti. The suspect's body is in a classroom at the school, the source said.

A law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said a male was being questioned but he is not being called a suspect.

Federal officers in tactical gear were on the scene, coordinating with local and state police. At least four ambulances remained at the school Friday afternoon.

Police have recovered two weapons from the suspect, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, the source said. It's unclear if police killed the suspect.

'It doesn't seem possible' -- parents shocked by school shooting

Police and teachers rushed students from the building as police swarmed the area shortly after the first calls came in, around 9:40 a.m. ET. Officials moved students to a nearby firehouse, where parents frantically sought information about their children.

Third-grader Alexis Wasik said police and teachers barged into her classroom and told students to hide in the corner.

"Everybody was crying," she said. "And I just heard the police officers yelling."

Aerial images from CNN affiliate News 12 New Jersey showed police officers armed with rifles following a dog into woods near the school.

Other officers, some in tactical gear, stood around the school with guns drawn, CNN affiliate WFSB reported.

All schools in the city were on lockdown Friday as police assessed the situation, Vance said.

Gov. Dan Malloy is "horrified" by what happened, a spokesman said.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said the Obama administration feels "enormous sympathy" for affected families and pledged federal support for state and local law enforcement.

Newtown is about 60 miles north of New York.

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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
This thread is not a place for discussion about gun control. There's a thread for that here:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261606

People who can't understand that will be banned from this thread.

Last edited by DaFace; 12-14-2012 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:55 PM   #1081
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Originally Posted by Barney Stinson View Post
As I explained earlier, I'm not a believer.

But as a non believer I still see power in prayer. Comfort, acceptance not withstanding - reactions to bizarre behaviors and putting kids in cabinets or bathrooms and locking doors, and moving furniture in front of bathroom doors with kids inside, etc. If believing and prayer helped those actions, than that's cool. If prayer helped give a last moment of peace before an unthinkable evil action, what's wrong with that?

Even believers can say it's not god's way to stop bad things from happening, but help believers get through those bad situations. Even if that bad situation is the last breath you take, taking it with peace is better than taking it with anxiety.

And all of that is assuming that I'm wrong. But what if there actually is a higher power? Then the benefits just increased.
There is nothing at all wrong with that my friend
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:01 PM   #1082
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Originally Posted by DonkyPuncher View Post
There is nothing at all wrong with that my friend
Well, if that's the worse case (from a religious standpoint) than let the holy rollers say their prayers. If you don't understand it or agree with it, who cares. More good can come from praying than not praying. No matter if you agree with prayer or not. So let them pray, and let them do so without any hindrance from us non believers. It changes nothing to us, but it changes much to them.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:06 PM   #1083
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It's not that I have some problem with religious people most my family, some friends and even my son are believers. I think you got me wrong, I'm not mad at religious people I'm mad at the situation and how these little kid's lost their lives and the kid's who have to live with this for the rest of their lives
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:07 PM   #1084
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Originally Posted by Chiefshrink View Post
You are closer than you think.



Yep.

Asperger's Syndrome is the highest functioning level of Autism. You see it early on but many parents just pass it off as "well that's just my child's uniqueness"(denial at that point in the parents that something is really wrong with their kid). It is not until the teen years they finally realize there is something severely wrong with their child's interpersonal and sociological relating skills to society. By then for most it is too late and they struggle mightily to fit in for the rest of their lives. Success dealing with Asperger's Syndrome must be diagnosed and treated early on in the elementary years and preferably in the toddler years.

Our neighbors across the street have an undiagnosed "Asperger's child who my wife has daycared for since he was 6 and now he is 13. He still likes to play with StarWar's figurines with 5yr old kids and has absolutely no empathy for others. Very emotionally stunted but highly intelligent in school getting good grades. They are beginning now to see that he is not normally fitting in but the mother in particular still refuses to see him as a mentally and emotionally challenged kid whereas the father sees it all the way but has washed his hands of his son out of frustration. It is a sad situation.

Asperger's Syndrome like any mental handicap in a child is very hard on a marriage and family if not diagnosed early on and if both parents aren't on board together with the diagnosis and treatment plan it is almost impossible for that kid to ever function normally in society by himself.

The difference between Asperger's and all other levels of Autism is that with Asperger's there IS enough "self-consciousness and intelligence' that an outside world exists whereas with all other levels of Autism they are in their own concooned intellectual and emotional world. Basically an Asperger's kid/adult knows consciously there is something wrong with him/her whereas the pure Autistic doesn't know there is anything wrong with themselves.

And this is THE BIGGEST challenge for a person with Asperger's when diagnosed and treated later in life and not caught early on in the elementary years. By then, emotionally for an Asperger's person they are so emotionally and mentally screwed up and beside themselves, very rarily do they ever get to a self-functioning level in society especially if the parents aren't united to get him help which doesn't seem to be the case for this Lanza kid. But divorce did occur which is difficult for any kid and especially for an Asperger's kid.

If true about this Lanza guy that he had Asperger's, now here you have a 20 yr old emotionally stunted man/child(5 to 8 yr old emotional state) who all of his rage was clearly aimed at his parents and specifically his mother and the 5yr old kids. In his severely emotionally stunted(warped) very sick mind and very sick heart his mother and the kids for whatever reasons(we don't know at this point)have been in 'his crosshairs' for a very long time IMO.

Here is my guess.

He finally snaps and goes to the school where his mother is a teacher's aid for a class of 5yr olds. Not only will he destroy and kill his mother's world forever but in his demented, sick warped emotional heart and mind he will destroy and kill the worlds of these 5yr olds and their families worlds forever as well. In his severely demented mind these 5yr old kids were stealing and receiving the unconditional love, approval and support from his mother that he never received from her that he probably heard about day in and day out for years that he hated and resented to hear because he knew he could never live up to her expectations because he knows there is something mentally wrong with him. He knows these 5yr olds are happy and normal with very loving families. And in his sick, demented, emotionally stunted mind if he can't ever be normal and can't ever be and live in his mother's world of unconditional love, approval and support and have a loving family then neither can these 5yr olds.

A very very very sad situation.
It's important to note that the vast majority of people with Asburgers Syndrome can and do experience empathy, some very much so. They have nearly no impulse control, however and can be hitters and biters. But they are absolutely capable of having feelings that relate to another persons' feelings.

A sociopath, however, does not feel empathy. They may or may not have other emotional or mental problems as well (my guess is a lot of these brain malfunctions are inter-related with schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder). We used to just call it psychopathy. Now 'sociopath' is a fairly broad term and colloquially is misused as a synonym for "evil" or "antisocial." It really just means that the mechanism for empathy in this person is, to some degree, broken. When you aren't predisposed to feel what others are feeling just by looking at them, the world becomes very difficult to navigate. Even if, otherwise, you're a good person and don't wish to harm anybody. But all of your morality is an intellectual exercise.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #1085
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Originally Posted by Barney Stinson View Post
But as a non believer I still see power in prayer. Comfort, acceptance not withstanding - reactions to bizarre behaviors and putting kids in cabinets or bathrooms and locking doors, and moving furniture in front of bathroom doors with kids inside, etc. If believing and prayer helped those actions, than that's cool. If prayer helped give a last moment of peace before an unthinkable evil action, what's wrong with that?

Even believers can say it's not god's way to stop bad things from happening, but help believers get through those bad situations. Even if that bad situation is the last breath you take, taking it with peace is better than taking it with anxiety.

I completely agree.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:45 PM   #1086
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You are losing formidable years of which you have much influence over if you do this. They will still be exposed to those things but at friend's houses where you have NO INFLUENCE. The better option is to give them those things but monitor their use and TALK TO YOUR KIDS. Know them and their friends. Be involved in their activities. I have not worked full time for over ten years because we believed our kids needed a parent involved in their lives vs. us acquiring more wealth. I'm so thankful we made this choice.
This a million times over
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by DonkyPuncher View Post
It's not that I have some problem with religious people most my family, some friends and even my son are believers. I think you got me wrong, I'm not mad at religious people I'm mad at the situation and how these little kid's lost their lives and the kid's who have to live with this for the rest of their lives
Well, I did associate a few other posters posts with yours, and yours was along the lines of "how a god of a holy roller exists and allows this tragedy to happen". I'm simply saying, if you don't believe in god, then who cares? If someone does believe in god and that belief gets them through a situation unharmed, or through the situation helping others, or lets them die with some comfort. Then I don't understand why people jump on the believer's faith.

If you do not need any "god" to get through a situation, more power to you. If someone does, why mock them for it? I get that there are Christians that continually do the "I'll pray for you" thing and even, "if you don't believe you're going to hell." thing. But If they are right, then let them pray for me. If they are wrong, it changes nothing, and telling them it does nothing - will do more harm than it does good.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #1088
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
It's important to note that the vast majority of people with Asburgers Syndrome can and do experience empathy, some very much so. They have nearly no impulse control, however and can be hitters and biters. But they are absolutely capable of having feelings that relate to another persons' feelings.

A sociopath, however, does not feel empathy. They may or may not have other emotional or mental problems as well (my guess is a lot of these brain malfunctions are inter-related with schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder). We used to just call it psychopathy. Now 'sociopath' is a fairly broad term and colloquially is misused as a synonym for "evil" or "antisocial." It really just means that the mechanism for empathy in this person is, to some degree, broken. When you aren't predisposed to feel what others are feeling just by looking at them, the world becomes very difficult to navigate. Even if, otherwise, you're a good person and don't wish to harm anybody. But all of your morality is an intellectual exercise.
Aspergers appears to be like any other condition in having varying degrees within each individual. Thus, I believe you are right that some experience of empathy is possible in many if not most. However, from what I understand, they are able to see empathy only in the first person meaning they experience empathy by logically processing the perspective of others through their own lens but not emotionally able to put themselves in the other person's shoes.

I'm sure there are higher functioning AS who have better degrees of this ability and then are unable to turn it off once on so they put up the wall and withdraw instead. That leads to the perception of lack of empathy when in reality it is a self defense mechanism. We see this in 'normal functioning' people. For instance, most people flipping the channel when the sad ASPA commercials come on.

The danger of Aspergers being linked to these types of events is that they are not indicative of what most AS people experience or are capable of. Most will live their lives not committing this type of violent activity and inflicting such harm to others.

What I want to know is if the Mother knew her child suffered from mental illness and if so why would she choose to teach him violence, show him how to shoot, and keep arms in the home. If she was one of those parents who believed her son was just weird or different and needed to 'man up' (like Sheldon Copper's mother on TBBT) and her idea of helping him do so was to train him to use a gun...well I have not a bit of sympathy for HER. I'm anxious to learn more about what types of treatment he's had and why she felt teaching him to use a gun was a healthy way to handle someone with mental illness.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #1089
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I hate to sound like an old fart, "You know, back in my day...", but I think the same thing.

When I am out in our neighborhood, I see so few kids outside doing anything it's shocking. As you said, my parents used to come out screaming for us to get in thje house at night. We'd be playing baseball when it had already gotten so dark you could barely see the ball. Since I often played catcher, this could be a little hazardous. We'd play football on the paved road so we could benefit from the streetlight and get a little more playing time in...

I'm not going to say that kids being outside playing ball with other kids is any kind of answer to such violence as we saw yesterday, but it's got to be healthier than being huddled in front of a monitor killing virtual people all night.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post


I did both growing up and I haven't come close to being a psychopath killer.

There are a lot more activities than just "killing virtual people" on computers, too.

Everything in moderation, dude. Kids should not be banned from computers until they are teenagers.

Where did you read any of the the things you're complaining about in my post?

You're as close to being a psychopathic killer as you are a journalist...

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Old 12-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #1090
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3 year prison term for each gun found. 90 day grace period for turning in all guns, each gun turned in is a tax credit.
Go. **** yourself. With a cactus.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:45 PM   #1091
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So the coroner is saying pretty much all wounds were caused by a rifle, then why was the rifle found in the backseat of his car?

The timeline as i understand it, says that he never made it back outside.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:46 PM   #1092
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:47 PM   #1093
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So the coroner is saying pretty much all wounds were caused by a rifle, then why was the rifle found in the backseat of his car?

The timeline as i understand it, says that he never made it back outside.
The gun was found inside with the shooter. They misreported that earlier.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:49 PM   #1094
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The gun was found inside with the shooter. They misreported that earlier.
Ah, i hadnt yet heard that.

The worst part is that each child was hit more than once, that mfer made sure to shoot everyone more than once.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:50 PM   #1095
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The whole thing is ****ed up. I don't even care to know the details because it's so ate up. I mean Damn, elementary school? It's not right.
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