Cardinals ***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread - Page 207

**BigRedChief** · 08:16 PM

From Bernie's column:

People have asked me why we’re not more emotional,” Matheny said in his office after Sunday’s game. “They say that we look subdued, always intense. That our actions are methodical, robotic at times. That’s what got us here. This isn’t the time to change it.”

It’s hard to argue with the manager’s assessment. The Cardinals finished with 97 victories, most by a Cards team since 2005, and tied with Boston for No. 1 in the majors this year.

Their 54-27 showing at Busch Stadium matches the 1985 team for the best single-season home winning percentage (.667) by the Cardinals since 1944.

A postseason theme has emerged, and it echoes the mantra that surfaced before the start of 2013: remember the fall of 2012. Remember falling to San Francisco in the NLCS.

The Cardinals’ veterans still haven’t forgotten. They still aren’t over it. It’s why Matheny resists GM John Mozeliak’s urgings to smile and put on a happier face.

Here's the most impressive aspect of the Cardinals' division championship: they prevailed over two other outstanding teams, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

The 97-win Cardinals were better this year (regular season) than they were in 2011, when they won 90 games, and 2012, when they won 88.
Here are a few numbers that help put the Cardinals' Central title and No. 1 NL seed in perspective:

* Since MLB switched to a three-division format in each league in 1994, this was only the sixth time that a division had three 90-plus win teams. St. Louis won 97, Pittsburgh 94, and Cincinnati 90.
* Since the format change, this was only the second time that an NL division had three 90-win teams. In 2002 the NL West had Arizona (98 wins), San Francisco (95) and Los Angeles (92).
* The 2013 Cardinals faced more esteemed and difficult competition at the top of the division than any of the division-winning teams managed by Tony La Russa.

The Pirates were hardly pushovers; the Cardinals had to work like mad and kick in with a strong finish to put the division away, and didn't clinch until Game No. 160.

The Cardinals went 9-10 against Pittsburgh this season and were 11-8 vs. Cincinnati.

The Cardinals won only three of 10 games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and split the 10 games at Cincinnati. The Cardinals were 6-3 against both teams at Busch Stadium.

The Cardinals (1st), Pirates (3rd) and Reds (5th) ranked among the top five in wins in the NL. The three teams were among the top 11 in wins in MLB. All three teams finished in the top five in the majors for best overall ERA, and each were in the top five MLB for best starting-pitching ERA.

The original purpose to this piece was to point out that the Cardinals managed to finish with the league's best record while competing in a division that had three 90-win teams for only the second time in the last 19 years of National League baseball.

The Cardinals really earned this.
Thanks for reading ...
— Bernie

Frazod · 07-23-2013, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Peavy I'd imagine.

Or shields if you want to give him away.

Peavy scares me. He breaks too easily.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-23-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

With Garza off the table, who is the Cardinals' target? I think they have a WS shot this year, with the right acquisition. Need one more SP to eat innings and take some pressure off the pen and the rest of that rotation.

Ervin Santana??

Jorge De La Rosa would be a perfect fit for the Birds, IMO. He's due for some regression in his HR totals, but he's a LHP who has a team option for '14 that the Rockies surely won't take, and if they don't, I don't think they can get compensation for him.

O.city · 07-23-2013, 04:03 PM

I'm not a huge peavy fan but he's better than anything out there at this point other than dipping coin and prospects for Cliff Lee.

Josh Johnson is an interesting idea though

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-23-2013, 04:04 PM

**** Johnson. He's hemorrhaged velocity ever since his shoulder injury. That dude is straight terrible this year.

duncan_idaho · 07-23-2013, 04:15 PM

Thoughts on targets:

Peavy - probably the least costly in terms of prospects. Would be a nice addition as long as his health holds up.

Santana - Having a great season but doesn't have Garza's post-season pedigree. Actually has outperformed Peavy so far. Cost would likely be similar to what the Cubs got from Garza, if Danny Knobler and Morosi can be believed.

Jorge de la Rosa - hadn't thought about him, but that's a nice idea. Cost wouldn't be prohibitive.

Josh Johnson - stay the eff away! Shoulder is cooked, I think. Maybe for good.

O.city · 07-23-2013, 04:28 PM

I had no idea about Johnson, just looking at teams that suck who would be willing to move someone decent.

Of course I'm the dum shit who wanted to make a move for Reyes ( which I'd still do if the would do it for say Wong, Wacha, and a few other pieces).

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-23-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I had no idea about Johnson, just looking at teams that suck who would be willing to move someone decent.

Of course I'm the dum shit who wanted to make a move for Reyes ( which I'd still do if the would do it for say Wong, Wacha, and a few other pieces).

Hypothetical: the Cardinals acquire Reyes. Where do you bat him?

O.city · 07-23-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Hypothetical: the Cardinals acquire Reyes. Where do you bat him?

Hypothetically if we acquired him I'd move carpenter in the 2 hole and bat Reyes lead off I guess, although I like having Bertrans pop in the 2 hole, I think carp would fit there.

It's kid of the same dilemma you have with bringing up Wong and putting carp at 3rd (which IMO is a bad idea, don't think his bat profiles at 3rd)

DJ's left nut · 07-23-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Hypothetical: the Cardinals acquire Reyes. Where do you bat him?

Leadoff - done.

Matt Carpenter is an orgasmically perfect #2 hitter. He does everything you want in a #2, right down to taking pitches as needed to give the leadoff guy a chance to run if appropriate and having the kind of plate coverage/discipline to worry about the AB being over if he falls behind. He has the doubles power to drive in the leadoff man from first and is enough of a deep threat that you can't just pump fastballs at him ahead of the 3 and 4 hitter.

He is a perfect #2 hitter.

Beltran goes to 3 with Craig/Adams/Molina at 4/5/6.

Mi_chief_fan · 07-23-2013, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Peavy scares me. He breaks too easily.

To be fair, his arm has never been hurt; his ERA would be much better in NL, IMO.

O.city · 07-23-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Leadoff - done.

Matt Carpenter is an orgasmically perfect #2 hitter. He does everything you want in a #2, right down to taking pitches as needed to give the leadoff guy a chance to run if appropriate and having the kind of plate coverage/discipline to worry about the AB being over if he falls behind. He has the doubles power to drive in the leadoff man from first and is enough of a deep threat that you can't just pump fastballs at him ahead of the 3 and 4 hitter.

He is a perfect #2 hitter.

Beltran goes to 3 with Craig/Adams/Molina at 4/5/6.

What about when Holliday comes back? Beltran to 4 and move everyone down a notch?

I'll admit, I'm a Reyes true fan I've always loved te guy as a player. But damn if he wouldn't fit great with this team.

Reyes
Carp
Holliday
Craig
Beltran
Yadi
Freese
Jay
P

For the rest of the year? Sign me up.

Then plug Tavares into Cf next year and let him hit 7th.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-23-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Leadoff - done.

Matt Carpenter is an orgasmically perfect #2 hitter. He does everything you want in a #2, right down to taking pitches as needed to give the leadoff guy a chance to run if appropriate and having the kind of plate coverage/discipline to worry about the AB being over if he falls behind. He has the doubles power to drive in the leadoff man from first and is enough of a deep threat that you can't just pump fastballs at him ahead of the 3 and 4 hitter.

He is a perfect #2 hitter.

Beltran goes to 3 with Craig/Adams/Molina at 4/5/6.

I actually agree, but he's been the best leadoff hitter in baseball since he took over that role, so I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him in it, either.

DJ's left nut · 07-23-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

What about when Holliday comes back? Beltran to 4 and move everyone down a notch?

I'll admit, I'm a Reyes true fan I've always loved te guy as a player. But damn if he wouldn't fit great with this team.

Reyes
Carp
Holliday
Craig
Beltran
Yadi
Freese
Jay
P

For the rest of the year? Sign me up.

Then plug Tavares into Cf next year and let him hit 7th.

If I'm king of the world, Holliday never sees the 3 hole again; the batspeed isn't there anymore.

I'd just swap him for Adams in the order.

Now, since I'm not king of the world and it's evidently against the unwritten rules of baseball to concede that time makes fools of us all, I'd move Beltran to 5. His power in the 5 hole ahead of a professional hitter like Yadi (so you can't dodge him) makes him an an ideal RBI bat in that spot, especially with his ability to punish just about any type of pitch.

O.city · 07-23-2013, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If I'm king of the world, Holliday never sees the 3 hole again; the batspeed isn't there anymore.

I'd just swap him for Adams in the order.

Now, since I'm not king of the world and it's evidently against the unwritten rules of baseball to concede that time makes fools of us all, I'd move Beltran to 5. His power in the 5 hole ahead of a professional hitter like Yadi (so you can't dodge him) makes him an an ideal RBI bat in that spot, especially with his ability to punish just about any type of pitch.

Cool with me. I really wish there was a way to get Adams Craig Holliday and Beltran in te lineup all together.

But it would likely be

Reyes
Carp
Holliday
Craig
Beltran ( Adams if Beltran walks)
Yadi
Freese
Tevaras
P

Next year?

I'd love to keep Beltran though a I think between Holliday, Craig, Beltran and Adams you can find enough abs for everyone

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-23-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If I'm king of the world, Holliday never sees the 3 hole again; the batspeed isn't there anymore.

This cannot be stressed enough. Matt Holliday has a slider speed bat now. He went from being one of the best FB hitters on the planet to a below average FB hitter this season, and it's not just mechanics, as his swing has always been more "Hulk Smash" than the poetic fluidity of Beltran's.

01-25-2013, 05:27 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3179627 VARSITY	*OFFICIAL* 2013 STL Cardinals Thread From Bernie's column: People have asked me why we’re not more emotional,” Matheny said in his office after Sunday’s game. “They say that we look subdued, always intense. That our actions are methodical, robotic at times. That’s what got us here. This isn’t the time to change it.” It’s hard to argue with the manager’s assessment. The Cardinals finished with 97 victories, most by a Cards team since 2005, and tied with Boston for No. 1 in the majors this year. Their 54-27 showing at Busch Stadium matches the 1985 team for the best single-season home winning percentage (.667) by the Cardinals since 1944. A postseason theme has emerged, and it echoes the mantra that surfaced before the start of 2013: remember the fall of 2012. Remember falling to San Francisco in the NLCS. The Cardinals’ veterans still haven’t forgotten. They still aren’t over it. It’s why Matheny resists GM John Mozeliak’s urgings to smile and put on a happier face. Here's the most impressive aspect of the Cardinals' division championship: they prevailed over two other outstanding teams, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. The 97-win Cardinals were better this year (regular season) than they were in 2011, when they won 90 games, and 2012, when they won 88. Here are a few numbers that help put the Cardinals' Central title and No. 1 NL seed in perspective: * Since MLB switched to a three-division format in each league in 1994, this was only the sixth time that a division had three 90-plus win teams. St. Louis won 97, Pittsburgh 94, and Cincinnati 90. * Since the format change, this was only the second time that an NL division had three 90-win teams. In 2002 the NL West had Arizona (98 wins), San Francisco (95) and Los Angeles (92). * The 2013 Cardinals faced more esteemed and difficult competition at the top of the division than any of the division-winning teams managed by Tony La Russa. The Pirates were hardly pushovers; the Cardinals had to work like mad and kick in with a strong finish to put the division away, and didn't clinch until Game No. 160. The Cardinals went 9-10 against Pittsburgh this season and were 11-8 vs. Cincinnati. The Cardinals won only three of 10 games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and split the 10 games at Cincinnati. The Cardinals were 6-3 against both teams at Busch Stadium. The Cardinals (1st), Pirates (3rd) and Reds (5th) ranked among the top five in wins in the NL. The three teams were among the top 11 in wins in MLB. All three teams finished in the top five in the majors for best overall ERA, and each were in the top five MLB for best starting-pitching ERA. The original purpose to this piece was to point out that the Cardinals managed to finish with the league's best record while competing in a division that had three 90-win teams for only the second time in the last 19 years of National League baseball. The Cardinals really earned this. Thanks for reading ... — Bernie Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-02-2013 at 08:16 PM..
Posts: 78,982

07-23-2013, 04:03 PM	#3093
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2784064	I'm not a huge peavy fan but he's better than anything out there at this point other than dipping coin and prospects for Cliff Lee. Josh Johnson is an interesting idea though
Posts: 81,205

07-23-2013, 04:04 PM	#3094
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	**** Johnson. He's hemorrhaged velocity ever since his shoulder injury. That dude is straight terrible this year. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

07-23-2013, 04:15 PM	#3095
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1790308	Thoughts on targets: Peavy - probably the least costly in terms of prospects. Would be a nice addition as long as his health holds up. Santana - Having a great season but doesn't have Garza's post-season pedigree. Actually has outperformed Peavy so far. Cost would likely be similar to what the Cubs got from Garza, if Danny Knobler and Morosi can be believed. Jorge de la Rosa - hadn't thought about him, but that's a nice idea. Cost wouldn't be prohibitive. Josh Johnson - stay the eff away! Shoulder is cooked, I think. Maybe for good. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,077

07-23-2013, 04:28 PM	#3096
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2784064	I had no idea about Johnson, just looking at teams that suck who would be willing to move someone decent. Of course I'm the dum shit who wanted to make a move for Reyes ( which I'd still do if the would do it for say Wong, Wacha, and a few other pieces).
Posts: 81,205