Romney: 47% of Americans are victims

[dirk digler]

I guess this maybe the kill shot for his campaign. I know some of you believe you this and won't find a problem with what he said but as a person running for POTUS you probably shouldn't write off 1/2 the country especially in a disparaging way.

A hidden camera video of Mitt Romney at a fundraiser shows him talking disparagingly of people who will vote for President Obama.

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

He adds: "My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

thats a flat tax system. The progressive tax system is the fairest way to divide up the burden of government.

You must understood what I said. I didn't say they should be taxed at the same rate, I said it should impact them the same. Which would be the purpose of a progressive tax.

[A Salt Weapon]

How does giving someone back more than they paid in taxes for the year impact them as much as taking 2mil away from someone that earned 8mil.

That makes no ****ing sense whatsoever.

Each person paying the same percentage total would impact them the same, not confiscating the earnings of those that work to give to those that don't.
Posted via Mobile Device

[A Salt Weapon]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

No it is about being fair. A 25% tax rate on a person with an income of $1000 is substantially more of a burden than a 25% tax rate on a person with an income of $10 million.

Uhm, no it's not. It burdens them the exact same, which would be the definition of "fair".

If the tax was a fixed amount such as $25.00 that would create a difference in burden, not a percentage.
Posted via Mobile Device

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

Please dispute that "liberal logic."

I would love to hear that.

It wasn't logic, it was a feeling.

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon

Uhm, no it's not. It burdens them the exact same, which would be the definition of "fair".

If the tax was a fixed amount such as $25.00 that would create a difference in burden, not a percentage.
Posted via Mobile Device

That would be incorrect. If someone has only $750 to make their ends meet they are in trouble. If someone has a remaining 7.5 million they are still doing great.

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by patteeu

It wasn't logic, it was a feeling.

Why are you replying to me? I didn't coin it. I just used his terminology so I wouldn't confuse him

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

thats a flat tax system. The progressive tax system is the fairest way to divide up the burden of government.

What needs to be done is not make government a burden. If you only attack the tax side, you miss what this country is supposed to be about.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

Why are you replying to me? I didn't coin it. I just used his terminology so I wouldn't confuse him

Because you asked someone to dispute it. You can't dispute a feeling. Your comment only makes sense if you think it really is logic.

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Because you asked someone to dispute it. You can't dispute a feeling. Your comment only makes sense if you think it really is logic.

I repeated his terminology back to him asking him to dispute it. He in respond made a silly sentence.

[KC Dan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

thats a flat tax system. The progressive tax system is the fairest way to divide up the burden of government.

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for some beers and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.00
The sixth would pay $3.00>>
The seventh would pay $7.00
The eighth would pay $12.00

The ninth would pay $18.00
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.00

So that's what they decided to do. The men drank in the bar every day and
seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day the owner threw them a
curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of
your daily beer by $20.00."

Drinks for the ten men now cost just $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four
men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six
men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that
everyone would get their "fair share?"

They realized that $20.00 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from
everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being
paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce
each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of 12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before! And the first four continued to drink for
free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20" declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth
man, "But he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all.
The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and
had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered
something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even
half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system
works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.>>

[Detoxing]

Originally Posted by KC Dan

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for some beers and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.00
The sixth would pay $3.00>>
The seventh would pay $7.00
The eighth would pay $12.00

The ninth would pay $18.00
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.00

So that's what they decided to do. The men drank in the bar every day and
seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day the owner threw them a
curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of
your daily beer by $20.00."

Drinks for the ten men now cost just $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four
men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six
men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that
everyone would get their "fair share?"

They realized that $20.00 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from
everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being
paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce
each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of 12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before! And the first four continued to drink for
free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20" declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth
man, "But he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all.
The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and
had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered
something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even
half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system
works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.>>

Nice

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by KC Dan

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for some beers and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:


And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system
works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.>>

How old is this thing? It was stupid years ago, and just as stupid now.

[ReynardMuldrake]

Originally Posted by KC Dan

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system
works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.>>

For the analogy to work, the two richest guys in the bar would have 80% of the beer for themselves.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

How old is this thing? It was stupid years ago, and just as stupid now.

All you need to know is your beer was free.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

That would be incorrect. If someone has only $750 to make their ends meet they are in trouble. If someone has a remaining 7.5 million they are still doing great.

Each must live according to his means. Fairness in taxation does not mean lower income people are subsidized to live beyond what they are able to earn for themselves.