Science Particles found to break speed of light - Page 4

**Donger** · 09-22-2011, 03:28 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/particles-reco...164441657.html

GENEVA (Reuters) - An international team of scientists said on Thursday they had recorded sub-atomic particles traveling faster than light -- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe.

Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, told Reuters that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.

"We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."

If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.

That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works.

The totally unexpected finding emerged from research by a physicists working on an experiment dubbed OPERA run jointly by the CERN particle research center near Geneva and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy.

A total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos -- tiny particles that pervade the cosmos -- were fired over a period of 3 years from CERN toward Gran Sasso 730 (500 miles) km away, where they were picked up by giant detectors.

Light would have covered the distance in around 2.4 thousandths of a second, but the neutrinos took 60 nanoseconds -- or 60 billionths of a second -- less than light beams would have taken.

"It is a tiny difference," said Ereditato, who also works at Berne University in Switzerland, "but conceptually it is incredibly important. The finding is so startling that, for the moment, everybody should be very prudent."

Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct.

"I just don't want to think of the implications," he told Reuters. "We are scientists and work with what we know."

Much science-fiction literature is based on the idea that, if the light-speed barrier can be overcome, time travel might theoretically become possible.

The existence of the neutrino, an elementary sub-atomic particle with a tiny amount of mass created in radioactive decay or in nuclear reactions such as those in the Sun, was first confirmed in 1934, but it still mystifies researchers.

It can pass through most matter undetected, even over long distances, and without being affected. Millions pass through the human body every day, scientists say.

To reach Gran Sasso, the neutrinos pushed out from a special installation at CERN -- also home to the Large Hadron Collider probing the origins of the universe -- have to pass through water, air and rock.

The underground Italian laboratory, some 120 km (75 miles) to the south of Rome, is the largest of its type in the world for particle physics and cosmic research.

Around 750 scientists from 22 different countries work there, attracted by the possibility of staging experiments in its three massive halls, protected from cosmic rays by some 1,400 metres (4,200 feet) of rock overhead.

**Saulbadguy** · 09-22-2011, 05:16 PM

Why is the speed of light the measuring stick? I mean, duh, obviously there are things faster than it we have yet to encounter.

Lonewolf Ed · 09-22-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

Pretty much. Einstein was and is wrong.

Yep. That's the thing about theories... they look great until disproven. But look at the value in discovering that the theory may be wrong. Now, we may find a host of new discoveries knowing where to look for them.

**DaFace** · 09-22-2011, 05:38 PM

**Reaper16** · 09-22-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Ehh, just saying we don't know NEARLY as much as we think we do.

No shit. That's why we still have science.

blaise · 09-22-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

Without lamps, there'd be no light.

I'm a genius because I can't build a lamp.

Extra Point · 09-22-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

I'm not sure what that is called, but I wonder if that has anything to do with this?

Ask Meg in the episode of "Family Guy," where her face melts.

WhiteWhale · 09-22-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Ehh, just saying we don't know NEARLY as much as we think we do. Next thing we know the Theory of Gravity will no longer be a theory.

What is your point? That science is ever discovering new things at an amazing and exciting pace? You'd be correct. Science is wonderful.

You mock science for being wrong, I get excited by something that opens a LOT of doors for mankind. As I said, this is an amazing age of discovery. You should embrace it.

WhiteWhale · 09-22-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

Pretty much. Einstein was and is wrong.

Well,Maxwell came up with the theory first.

Pants · 09-22-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Ehh, just saying we don't know NEARLY as much as we think we do.

So since we don't know nearly as much as we think we do, we should stop seeking knowledge?

BRAVO!

Extra Point · 09-22-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Well,Maxwell came up with the theory first.

And, since the introduction of complex numbers, we are still challenged, to consolidate Newton's and his equations.

ClevelandBronco · 09-22-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

Meh, Einstein only had an IQ of 160.

http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/famous-people.html

That one extra point must be the most important one, because no one's going to remember you even existed.

Ugly Duck · 09-22-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

Scientists spend their careers trying to knock holes in the established theories. That's culture is to foster finding wrong answers and replacing them with better answers.

Entrepreneurship is the same way.

Is the same true for Christianity?

"Bob" Dobbs · 09-22-2011, 07:00 PM

So the Theory of Relativity was wrong? I bet those folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are glad they aren't really dead.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fish · 09-22-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Bob" Dobbs

So the Theory of Relativity was wrong?

Not wrong... just incomplete..

And Einstein predicted as much. He was never content with his Theory of Relativity, and he always felt it was incomplete. He spent quite a bit of time searching for the next step, the Theory of Everything that would explain away the things he struggled with concerning his own theory.

But that's the brilliance of science as a whole. It's so self disciplined that it's always a work in progress. Ever evolving along with our understanding and discovery. So that it's constantly improved.

FAX · 09-22-2011, 07:41 PM

Maybe I dreamed this or maybe I was visited by the ghost of Herman Melville's brother Mel during an overdose event, but I thought that Max Planck's quantum mechanics theories had predicted this some time ago ... like say ... in the early 1900's or so. I seem to recall that, before they started jamming together, he called Einstein an ugly goober.

More recently, the whole concept of quantum disentanglement leads one to believe that the "speed of light" is not an impassible threshold since information between particles can be passed instantly over enormous distances.

FAX THE SCIENTIST DUDE

09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Donger "Think BOOM!" Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W Casino cash: $10389900 VARSITY	Particles found to break speed of light http://news.yahoo.com/particles-reco...164441657.html GENEVA (Reuters) - An international team of scientists said on Thursday they had recorded sub-atomic particles traveling faster than light -- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe. Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, told Reuters that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done. "We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently." If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster. That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works. The totally unexpected finding emerged from research by a physicists working on an experiment dubbed OPERA run jointly by the CERN particle research center near Geneva and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy. A total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos -- tiny particles that pervade the cosmos -- were fired over a period of 3 years from CERN toward Gran Sasso 730 (500 miles) km away, where they were picked up by giant detectors. Light would have covered the distance in around 2.4 thousandths of a second, but the neutrinos took 60 nanoseconds -- or 60 billionths of a second -- less than light beams would have taken. "It is a tiny difference," said Ereditato, who also works at Berne University in Switzerland, "but conceptually it is incredibly important. The finding is so startling that, for the moment, everybody should be very prudent." Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct. "I just don't want to think of the implications," he told Reuters. "We are scientists and work with what we know." Much science-fiction literature is based on the idea that, if the light-speed barrier can be overcome, time travel might theoretically become possible. The existence of the neutrino, an elementary sub-atomic particle with a tiny amount of mass created in radioactive decay or in nuclear reactions such as those in the Sun, was first confirmed in 1934, but it still mystifies researchers. It can pass through most matter undetected, even over long distances, and without being affected. Millions pass through the human body every day, scientists say. To reach Gran Sasso, the neutrinos pushed out from a special installation at CERN -- also home to the Large Hadron Collider probing the origins of the universe -- have to pass through water, air and rock. The underground Italian laboratory, some 120 km (75 miles) to the south of Rome, is the largest of its type in the world for particle physics and cosmic research. Around 750 scientists from 22 different countries work there, attracted by the possibility of staging experiments in its three massive halls, protected from cosmic rays by some 1,400 metres (4,200 feet) of rock overhead.
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09-22-2011, 05:16 PM	#46
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09-22-2011, 05:38 PM	#48
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2066899
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09-22-2011, 07:00 PM	#58
"Bob" Dobbs Kickin' it in Dobbstown. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southeast Kansas Casino cash: $9824317	So the Theory of Relativity was wrong? I bet those folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are glad they aren't really dead. Posted via Mobile Device
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09-22-2011, 07:41 PM	#60
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Maybe I dreamed this or maybe I was visited by the ghost of Herman Melville's brother Mel during an overdose event, but I thought that Max Planck's quantum mechanics theories had predicted this some time ago ... like say ... in the early 1900's or so. I seem to recall that, before they started jamming together, he called Einstein an ugly goober. More recently, the whole concept of quantum disentanglement leads one to believe that the "speed of light" is not an impassible threshold since information between particles can be passed instantly over enormous distances. FAX THE SCIENTIST DUDE
Posts: 44,492