Jeff Flanagan: "Tyler Bray slow to grasp pro system"

[FringeNC]

http://msn.foxsports.com/kansas-city...-murray-051014

In a puff piece on Aaron Murray, an interesting tidbit:

The Chiefs already have starter Alex Smith, backup Chase Daniel and developmental quarterback Tyler Bray.

The Chiefs could save $1.4 million if they were to release Daniel. Bray, though, seems the most vulnerable. Although the Chiefs love his arm strength, he was slow to grasp the pro system.

Murray likely won't have those issues since he already has played in a pro passing system at Georgia.

[patteeu]

The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.

[rico]

Originally Posted by patteeu

The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.

Exactly...especially if Murray goes PUP.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by rico

First thing that went through my head when I noticed this thread.

Yep. Only time Bray got extended time was game 4 against GB and he threw 3 TDs.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by -King-

Well yeah, but that would be the logical thing to do. So I don't know why you think this sort of thinking has any place on CP.

Blow me, Daniel has the exact same amount of time in this system as Bray and he has exactly 1 more games worth of experience.

Its not cut and dried enough to take a swipe like that, Bray costs much less and has far more upside... is he as quick on the uptake as Daniel, probably not, but there was never any rush with the guy in the first place.

If Murray jumps all over the 2 spot in camp, great... but theres just no reason to give up on that kind of arm talent after one year, Daniel isn't worth his paycheck.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by scott free

Blow me, Daniel has the exact same amount of time in this system as Bray and he has exactly 1 more games worth of experience.

He has also been in the league for 6 years and was the backup for Drew Brees. I'll take that small amount of experience any day as a backup.

Its not cut and dried enough to take a swipe like that, Bray costs much less and has far more upside... is he as quick on the uptake as Daniel, probably not, but there was never any rush with the guy in the first place.

I don't ****ing care about upside to be honest. Bray best case scenario to be honest is being a career backup like Chase Daniel. It's FAR more likely that he'll be out of the league in a few years than he becomes a backup for 6 years like Daniel has. If Alex is injured and has to miss a couple games, I'm far more comfortable with Daniel going in than with Bray. And that's what we need out of a backup. A player that can come in in an emergency and that knows the system and can still run the offense without needing to dumb down everything.

If Murray jumps all over the 2 spot in camp, great... but theres just no reason to give up on that kind of arm talent after one year, Daniel isn't worth his paycheck.

Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.

[BigBeauford]

I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by BigBeauford

I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.

He shit the bed?

Which game?

And it's funny you talk about Daniel playing 2nd/3rd stringers when Bray played against 4th stringers and guys that were about to be cut in the GB game.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by -King-

He has also been in the league for 6 years and was the backup for Drew Brees. I'll take that small amount of experience any day as a backup.


I don't ****ing care about upside to be honest. Bray best case scenario to be honest is being a career backup like Chase Daniel. It's FAR more likely that he'll be out of the league in a few years than he becomes a backup for 6 years like Daniel has. If Alex is injured and has to miss a couple games, I'm far more comfortable with Daniel going in than with Bray. And that's what we need out of a backup. A player that can come in in an emergency and that knows the system and can still run the offense without needing to dumb down everything.



Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.

You make plenty of solid points, but I also think you're totally undervaluing raw talent, very young raw talent at that... Matt Cassel backed up Tom Brady for several years, how much good did it do him?

Bray is the definition of a project, everyone knows that... but if Murray comes into camp and wows with his ability to grasp the system/shows good instincts, as most seem to think he will, then I and others would rather keep the guy with the higher ceiling while cheering on Murray at #2.

Theres good logic for both arguments, that's why I took exception to the "no logic" thing. You like a more, overall, experienced Daniel and that's fine, but its no excuse to tell Bray fans they're a bunch of logic lacking fools, either.

[Easy 6]

Bray came into the GB preseason game midway through the second, I really doubt it was the very bottom of the barrel 4th stringers throughout.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by BigBeauford

I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.

Originally Posted by scott free

Bray came into the GB preseason game midway through the second, I really doubt it was the very bottom of the barrel 4th stringers throughout.

Here's the thing too it REALLY pisses me off when I hear that he's having difficulty assimilating the playbook. It infers that he isn't applying himself well enough to fully understand and absorb whats being presented. I've hailed his praises about as much as anybody, but I've also said that there is a caveat about him too which is he needs to get his shit together.

If he doesn't have that self encompassing competitive drive to get better like a Peyton Manning,Tom Brady,and Marino then he's ****ing up.

[scho63]

Tyler Bray: "me like football. me throw ball far. me like girls too. me no read books"

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Here's the thing too it REALLY pisses me off when I hear that he's having difficulty assimilating the playbook. It infers that he isn't applying himself well enough to fully understand and absorb whats being presented. I've hailed his praises about as much as anybody, but I've also said that there is a caveat about him too which is he needs to get his shit together.

If he doesn't have that self encompassing competitive drive to get better like a Peyton Manning,Tom Brady,and Marino then he's ****ing up.

You're preaching to the converted, yes... if he isn't applying himself or truly is dumb as a brick, then him and his big arms gotta go no doubt.

But its also important IMO not to take this "leak" as the Gospel Truth.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by patteeu

The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.

It would be great if the Chiefs made a concerted effort to make Aaron Murray an attractive trade bait this pre-season. We've already got a short, noodle armed QB on the roster that doesn't have a crappy release, average athletics and questionable decision making.

Let's see...what would I rather have as a potential Chiefs QB:

6'6", 235 lbs. with great overhead release and an absolute cannon for an arm...

From NFL.com:

Strengths:
Bray uses his height to adequately survey the field and see over his offensive lineman, yet he also displays the flexibility to bend and reach for low shotgun snaps. Bray has elite arm strength, and generates this power through a consistent rotation of his hips. His throws are often tight spirals, and the velocity of his throws allows him to beat defenders to the spot. He shows the ability to manipulate the pocket, and change his arm slot, while still delivering accurate throws.

Weaknesses:
An extremely thin build, and won’t contribute much as a scrambler. His gamed is mired with tremendous inconsistencies, mostly rooted in a poor feel for the intricacies of the game. Accuracy and footwork can go array at any point in the game. Takes to many unnecessary risks. Has a tendency to stare down his targets. Did not develop in his Junior season as many had hoped.

NFL Comparison Jay Cutler

Bottom Line:
Based on pure arm talent, Bray is an extremely impressive quarterback prospect. However, his arm talent only resulted in a few standout plays amongst a season of poor decisions, and maddening inconsinstencies. An NFL team that drafts him will be doing so based on their faith in cleaning up the many aspects of Bray's game that leave much to be desired.

Sac's completely objective summary:

6'6" dude with a cannon and a great release. You can't coach up arm strength. You can coach up decision making and timing.

Chiefs Planet's reeruned summary:

He was an UDFA. He must suck. I can't wait until we spend a draft pick on a QB.

or

6', 207 lbs. with a poor release on a marginal arm...

From NFL.com:

Strengths:
Has a quick release and is light enough on his feet to escape the first wave and make some plays on the move. Solid decision-maker -- takes what the defense gives him. Fine short-to-intermediate accuracy. Good intangibles. Encouraging team leader with a likeable personality. Leads by example. Serves well as the face of the program. Outstanding work ethic. Is very intelligent and football smart. Experienced, four-year starter in the SEC.

Weaknesses:
Short and short-armed with a low release point that leads to batted balls. Very small-framed with a thin waist and a body that is not built to withstand the punishment that comes in the pocket. Average arm talent. Has to set his feet and everything needs to be perfect to function well. Could stand to improve his footwork. Marginal deep-ball accuracy -- tends to overstride and forces receivers to adjust. Many passes are pre-determined and often throws to spots. Loses poise under duress and can be rattled easily by pressure. Gets too jittery and anxious (overanalyzes) in big games and has a very low winning percentage vs. top-10 teams. Long-term durability is concerning.

Bottom Line:
Diminutive, game-managing pocket passer still recovering from a torn ACL. Would benefit from a moving pocket that can create open throwing lanes, yet does not have the foot quickness desired for a rollout passing game. Possesses a skill set most ideally suited for a backup or No. 3 role. Intelligence, intangibles and experience are all pluses.

Sac's completely objective summary:

Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel

Chief Planet's reeruned summary:

HOLY SHIT!!! We drafted a QB!!1!11! He's going to be the starter by mid-way through the season and we'll have our very own homegrown QBOTF!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!1!11!!wtfomgpwnzr!!!lololololo!!1! NFL Comparison: Joe Montana at his very best.

You guys are so ****ing hardup for any QB the Chiefs draft to be "the man" that you are willing to discount and dismiss what we already have on our roster just because we took one guy in the draft and the others we did not.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It would be great if the Chiefs made a concerted effort to make Aaron Murray an attractive trade bait this pre-season. We've already got a short, noodle armed QB on the roster that doesn't have a crappy release, average athletics and questionable decision making.

Let's see...what would I rather have as a potential Chiefs QB:

6'6", 235 lbs. with great overhead release and an absolute cannon for an arm...

From NFL.com:



Sac's completely objective summary:

6'6" dude with a cannon and a great release. You can't coach up arm strength. You can coach up decision making and timing.

Chiefs Planet's reeruned summary:

He was an UDFA. He must suck. I can't wait until we spend a draft pick on a QB.

or

6', 207 lbs. with a poor release on a marginal arm...

From NFL.com:



Sac's completely objective summary:

Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel

Chief Planet's reeruned summary:

HOLY SHIT!!! We drafted a QB!!1!11! He's going to be the starter by mid-way through the season and we'll have our very own homegrown QBOTF!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!1!11!!wtfomgpwnzr!!!lololololo!!1! NFL Comparison: Joe Montana at his very best.

You guys are so ****ing hardup for any QB the Chiefs draft to be "the man" that you are willing to discount and dismiss what we already have on our roster just because we took one guy in the draft and the others we did not.

My Bray summary:

Reincarnation of Elvis Grbac. If you're willing to suffer through several years of boneheaded play, he might develop into a serviceable starter but he's unlikely to ever be a devoted student of the game and he just might decide to bail on you rather than re-sign just about the time your investment is starting to pay off.

I don't care about drafting a QB. I'm fine with getting a QB through any means whether it's 1st round pick, late round developmental flyer, UDFA, trade, high priced free agent, etc. Tyler Bray just hasn't shown any sign, going back to his college career, that he's the field general and leader that I want behind my center. If the Chiefs coaching staff can turn him around, that's great, but I'm not optimistic. So watch where you're pointing that "you guys".

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by -King-

Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.

Wrong.

It's not about how far you can throw it, it's about getting the ball to the right spot as quickly as possible.

Defenders can adjust on a whiffle ball.