Chiefs Chiefs Film Room: Kevin Hogan Is An Andy Reid QB

thabear04 · 05-27-2016, 10:26 AM

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2016/05/2...-andy-reid-qb/

The backup quarterback position is consistently one of intrigue when it comes to Andy Reid-led teams.

Ever since Kevin Kolb was flipped for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second-round pick (yeesh), people have viewed Reid’s backups as potential starters and prime trade bait. Look no further than the rampant Chase Daniel trade speculation these past couple of seasons if you want proof of this.

Well now that Daniel has moved on to greener pastures- money wise at least – Reid is heading into this summer looking to anoint his next backup quarterback. Sure, Bray has been announced as the number two, but it has been made abundantly clear that Murray and Hogan will have every chance to snatch that spot over the coming months.

And if there’s one guy who looks to be primed to shake up the race, it’s the new kid on the block, Kevin Hogan.

The fifth-round pick out of Stanford is much more pro-ready than your average late round quarterback. Much of the credit for this goes to Stanford’s pro-style offense (ie. snaps are actually taken under center every once in a while).

This, along with some west-coast offense elements having been incorporated in that offense, gives Hogan a greatly reduced learning curve compared to your average rookie quarterback. Murray and Bray will still have a substantial advantage over him in terms of knowing the offense, but Hogan isn’t coming in as a complete blank slate, which is good.

There are a few other positive aspects of Hogan’s game that bode well for his backup quarterback prospects. One thing that’s instantly noticeable when you turn on the tape is his willingness to stand tall in the face of pressure and keep his eyes downfield:

Spoiler!

Hogan does an absolutely fantastic job of climbing the pocket here while keeping his eyes downfield the whole time. It’s fairly common to see quarterbacks get moved off their spot, drop their eyes, and proceed to tuck and run.

Even when forced to move, Hogan is usually looking to get the ball downfield. He also ends up taking a hit at the end of this throw, but you’ll notice it doesn’t affect Hogan’s delivery of the pass. He stands in there, makes the pass he wants to, and absorbs the hit like a champ.

But what about when it comes to, you know, actually throwing the ball? Well, Hogan put some passes on tape that showcase everything you’d want in a quarterback.

Spoiler!

For a guy scouts say has trouble with throwing the deep ball, Hogan sure did have a lot of dimes like this one. The trajectory and power behind this throw is perfect, and the result is a deep ball which hits the receiver in stride right on his hands.

Now, other than the fact the receiver runs right by two defenders, the other thing to takeaway here is that Hogan is given time and space to unleash this throw. That was a common component in Hogan’s deep ball.

Spoiler!

Probably my favorite part of Hogan’s game, and why I believe he is a legitimate option for the number two spot in his rookie season, is his ability to throw with anticipation. Hitting your playmakers in stride and throwing the ball to the spot they are going to be, not where they are, is a key component of the west coast offense. Hogan did this time and time again on tape.

The USC throw above is the best throw I saw Hogan make in the four games I watched of his. First, he utilizes the space his offensive line gives him and steps up in the pocket, allowing him to put a little more into the throw. Second, the trajectory of the ball puts it just out of reach of the underneath defender, but not so high that receiver has to extend himself for it.

Finally, the placement ensures the receiver does not have to slow down one bit, while at the same time, not giving the safety crashing down a chance to catch up and make a play on the ball. That’s a big time throw right there, and one you can bet Andy Reid took note of when scouting Hogan.

From what you’ve seen so far, you may be thinking, “well if he’s this good, how did he we get him in the fifth round?” A fair question no doubt, and the biggest issue that caused Hogan to be a late round pick is his consistency – or lack thereof.

The most inconsistent part of Hogan’s game is his throwing motion, and this wreaks havoc with his power and accuracy. When Hogan is given time and room to step into his throws, you get results like you saw above. But when Hogan doesn’t step into his throws and shortens his throwing motion, you get a play like this:

Spoiler!

Throwing outside the numbers like that from the far hash mark may work at the college level, but in the NFL that ball is being taken the other way for a pick-six. If you look at Hogan make that throw, he seems to fade away when he delivers it and doesn’t get anywhere close to the zip he’s capable of.

What makes this even more troubling is that there is no reason for Hogan to change his throwing motion here. The defense isn’t bearing down on him, the protection holds up fine, and he has plenty of time to plant his feet. Against USC, this is the kind of throw I saw him make in the same situation:

Spoiler!

Why Hogan didn’t make that type of throw versus Notre Dame is a complete mystery to me. And it wasn’t only his power that faded at random times, his accuracy took major swings as well and it wasn’t uncommon to see him unleash a few bad overthrows at times.

I would be very surprised if Andy Reid’s first mission wasn’t to fix these inconsistencies with Hogan’s delivery.

Something else Hogan struggles with is progressing through reads. He often stared down his number one option for far too long before moving on to his second read. While he doesn’t get happy feet and take off if his first read isn’t available, taking too long between progressions is just as debilitating to an offense:

Spoiler!

Hogan’s first read on this play is the receiver to the far right who is going deep. Hogan locks onto him throughout his dropback and stays locked on even when he begins stepping up. Meanwhile, over the middle of the field, his tight end is coming open and should be the target of this throw.

Hogan spends too long on his first read, and by the time he makes his way over to the tight end, the pocket is collapsing and he’s unable to get the ball out. In the NFL, pockets will collapse quicker and progressions must be made faster; adapting to the speed of the game may cause Hogan a few problems early on.

It’s easy to see why Reid drafted Hogan: he has the tools needed to run the west coast offense, he has shown the ability to make throws that are staples of a Reid offense, and he also has shown he can create big plays through the air. But Hogan’s success will hinge on his ability to develop consistency in his delivery, and adapt to the speed of the NFL game.

While it may not happen this season, Hogan has the tools Reid looks for and it’s only a matter of time before Hogan becomes the next fabled Reid backup quarterback.

Rasputin · 05-27-2016, 10:44 AM

I don't like drafting for backups I like to draft for starters or eventual starters.

Coochie liquor · 05-27-2016, 11:32 AM

He will be better than Paxton Lynch.

**The Franchise** · 05-27-2016, 12:14 PM

His TE was coming open on that last gif? Sure. But he also had a LB covering underneath. So that was going to be tough throw either way.

Dante84 · 05-27-2016, 12:21 PM

His Notre Dame tape was sick.

chiefzilla1501 · 05-27-2016, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

I don't like drafting for backups I like to draft for starters or eventual starters.

Yes and no. I'm okay with it if the understanding is that we drafted a backup. Versus convincing ourselves we can coach a guy up to be a starter. Having a good backup was critical last year and I'm glad we're not paying 5m for chase Daniel to warm the bench.

But yeah, we have to find a prospect who can be a starter. Maybe bray and Murray are it. But I'm hoping Dorsey and Reid aren't putting all their eggs in that basket unless they're absolutely sure.

Mr. Laz · 05-27-2016, 01:47 PM

So is Alex, so is Murray ...

Whatever, develop one of these 'perfect fits at QB' and trade him off for draft picks and then we'll talk.

DJ's left nut · 05-27-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

I don't like drafting for backups I like to draft for starters or eventual starters.

Most times I'd agree.

But when backup QBs cost 3-5 million/season on the open market, drafting a backup that you trust effectively saves you the salary slot you can then use to acquire a starter in FA if need be.

Every pick won't be a starter. If you can draft a backup QB you have confidence in in the 5th round, that's a hell of a use of that pick.

Coochie liquor · 05-27-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Most times I'd agree.

But when backup QBs cost 3-5 million/season on the open market, drafting a backup that you trust effectively saves you the salary slot you can then use to acquire a starter in FA if need be.

Every pick won't be a starter. If you can draft a backup QB you have confidence in in the 5th round, that's a hell of a use of that pick.

This exactly.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-27-2016, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Most times I'd agree.

But when backup QBs cost 3-5 million/season on the open market, drafting a backup that you trust effectively saves you the salary slot you can then use to acquire a starter in FA if need be.

Every pick won't be a starter. If you can draft a backup QB you have confidence in in the 5th round, that's a hell of a use of that pick.

So, perpetual FA starters then?

How is this good?

Am I really reading this?

**HemiEd** · 05-27-2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagnabit

So, perpetual FA starters then?

How is this good?

Am I really reading this?

We are Chiefs fans, "we settle."

It will be interesting watching him develop.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-27-2016, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

We are Chiefs fans, "we settle."

I've made jokes about this kind of thing being in Chiefs fan DNA, but if people are really accepting this as sound policy, I can't say I'm disappointed in my choice to move on.

**HemiEd** · 05-27-2016, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagnabit

I've made jokes about this kind of thing being in Chiefs fan DNA, but if people are really accepting this as sound policy, I can't say I'm disappointed in my choice to move on.

Your choice, they are who they are. I have just accepted it, until proven otherwise on drafting a QB.

chiefzilla1501 · 05-27-2016, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagnabit

So, perpetual FA starters then?

How is this good?

Am I really reading this?

Im pretty sure he's not saying that. Hes saying if Hogan ends up being a good backup, it's a good pick. And I agree even though I also believe we need to be more aggressive about finding a qbotf

RunKC · 05-27-2016, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Most times I'd agree.

But when backup QBs cost 3-5 million/season on the open market, drafting a backup that you trust effectively saves you the salary slot you can then use to acquire a starter in FA if need be.

Every pick won't be a starter. If you can draft a backup QB you have confidence in in the 5th round, that's a hell of a use of that pick.

It's worth it not having to be in a position like the Cowboys last year.

05-27-2016, 10:26 AM
thabear04 MTFU Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Valley Heat Casino cash: $5740450	Chiefs Film Room: Kevin Hogan Is An Andy Reid QB http://arrowheadaddict.com/2016/05/2...-andy-reid-qb/ The backup quarterback position is consistently one of intrigue when it comes to Andy Reid-led teams. Ever since Kevin Kolb was flipped for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second-round pick (yeesh), people have viewed Reid’s backups as potential starters and prime trade bait. Look no further than the rampant Chase Daniel trade speculation these past couple of seasons if you want proof of this. Well now that Daniel has moved on to greener pastures- money wise at least – Reid is heading into this summer looking to anoint his next backup quarterback. Sure, Bray has been announced as the number two, but it has been made abundantly clear that Murray and Hogan will have every chance to snatch that spot over the coming months. And if there’s one guy who looks to be primed to shake up the race, it’s the new kid on the block, Kevin Hogan. The fifth-round pick out of Stanford is much more pro-ready than your average late round quarterback. Much of the credit for this goes to Stanford’s pro-style offense (ie. snaps are actually taken under center every once in a while). This, along with some west-coast offense elements having been incorporated in that offense, gives Hogan a greatly reduced learning curve compared to your average rookie quarterback. Murray and Bray will still have a substantial advantage over him in terms of knowing the offense, but Hogan isn’t coming in as a complete blank slate, which is good. There are a few other positive aspects of Hogan’s game that bode well for his backup quarterback prospects. One thing that’s instantly noticeable when you turn on the tape is his willingness to stand tall in the face of pressure and keep his eyes downfield: Spoiler! Hogan does an absolutely fantastic job of climbing the pocket here while keeping his eyes downfield the whole time. It’s fairly common to see quarterbacks get moved off their spot, drop their eyes, and proceed to tuck and run. Even when forced to move, Hogan is usually looking to get the ball downfield. He also ends up taking a hit at the end of this throw, but you’ll notice it doesn’t affect Hogan’s delivery of the pass. He stands in there, makes the pass he wants to, and absorbs the hit like a champ. But what about when it comes to, you know, actually throwing the ball? Well, Hogan put some passes on tape that showcase everything you’d want in a quarterback. Spoiler! For a guy scouts say has trouble with throwing the deep ball, Hogan sure did have a lot of dimes like this one. The trajectory and power behind this throw is perfect, and the result is a deep ball which hits the receiver in stride right on his hands. Now, other than the fact the receiver runs right by two defenders, the other thing to takeaway here is that Hogan is given time and space to unleash this throw. That was a common component in Hogan’s deep ball. Spoiler! Probably my favorite part of Hogan’s game, and why I believe he is a legitimate option for the number two spot in his rookie season, is his ability to throw with anticipation. Hitting your playmakers in stride and throwing the ball to the spot they are going to be, not where they are, is a key component of the west coast offense. Hogan did this time and time again on tape. The USC throw above is the best throw I saw Hogan make in the four games I watched of his. First, he utilizes the space his offensive line gives him and steps up in the pocket, allowing him to put a little more into the throw. Second, the trajectory of the ball puts it just out of reach of the underneath defender, but not so high that receiver has to extend himself for it. Finally, the placement ensures the receiver does not have to slow down one bit, while at the same time, not giving the safety crashing down a chance to catch up and make a play on the ball. That’s a big time throw right there, and one you can bet Andy Reid took note of when scouting Hogan. From what you’ve seen so far, you may be thinking, “well if he’s this good, how did he we get him in the fifth round?” A fair question no doubt, and the biggest issue that caused Hogan to be a late round pick is his consistency – or lack thereof. The most inconsistent part of Hogan’s game is his throwing motion, and this wreaks havoc with his power and accuracy. When Hogan is given time and room to step into his throws, you get results like you saw above. But when Hogan doesn’t step into his throws and shortens his throwing motion, you get a play like this: Spoiler! Throwing outside the numbers like that from the far hash mark may work at the college level, but in the NFL that ball is being taken the other way for a pick-six. If you look at Hogan make that throw, he seems to fade away when he delivers it and doesn’t get anywhere close to the zip he’s capable of. What makes this even more troubling is that there is no reason for Hogan to change his throwing motion here. The defense isn’t bearing down on him, the protection holds up fine, and he has plenty of time to plant his feet. Against USC, this is the kind of throw I saw him make in the same situation: Spoiler! Why Hogan didn’t make that type of throw versus Notre Dame is a complete mystery to me. And it wasn’t only his power that faded at random times, his accuracy took major swings as well and it wasn’t uncommon to see him unleash a few bad overthrows at times. I would be very surprised if Andy Reid’s first mission wasn’t to fix these inconsistencies with Hogan’s delivery. Something else Hogan struggles with is progressing through reads. He often stared down his number one option for far too long before moving on to his second read. While he doesn’t get happy feet and take off if his first read isn’t available, taking too long between progressions is just as debilitating to an offense: Spoiler! Hogan’s first read on this play is the receiver to the far right who is going deep. Hogan locks onto him throughout his dropback and stays locked on even when he begins stepping up. Meanwhile, over the middle of the field, his tight end is coming open and should be the target of this throw. Hogan spends too long on his first read, and by the time he makes his way over to the tight end, the pocket is collapsing and he’s unable to get the ball out. In the NFL, pockets will collapse quicker and progressions must be made faster; adapting to the speed of the game may cause Hogan a few problems early on. It’s easy to see why Reid drafted Hogan: he has the tools needed to run the west coast offense, he has shown the ability to make throws that are staples of a Reid offense, and he also has shown he can create big plays through the air. But Hogan’s success will hinge on his ability to develop consistency in his delivery, and adapt to the speed of the NFL game. While it may not happen this season, Hogan has the tools Reid looks for and it’s only a matter of time before Hogan becomes the next fabled Reid backup quarterback.
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05-27-2016, 10:44 AM	#2
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $3535421	I don't like drafting for backups I like to draft for starters or eventual starters. __________________ A Brave Man Once Requested Me To Answer Questions That Are Key 'Is It To Be Or Not To Be' And I Replied Oh Why Ask Me
Posts: 54,956

05-27-2016, 11:32 AM	#3
Coochie liquor Bolton gonna knock you out Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Free Vybz Kartel Casino cash: $2792394	He will be better than Paxton Lynch.
Posts: 20,390

05-27-2016, 12:14 PM	#4
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3195047	His TE was coming open on that last gif? Sure. But he also had a LB covering underneath. So that was going to be tough throw either way.
Posts: 91,938

05-27-2016, 12:21 PM	#5
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $1871996 VARSITY	His Notre Dame tape was sick. __________________ ..
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05-27-2016, 01:47 PM	#7
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	So is Alex, so is Murray ... Whatever, develop one of these 'perfect fits at QB' and trade him off for draft picks and then we'll talk. __________________
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