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Old 06-12-2018, 04:18 PM  
DaFace DaFace is offline
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People who overestimate their political knowledge tend to believe conspiracy theories

Posting just because I'll be amused to watch the discussion. Not that there's anyone here this would apply to.

http://www.psypost.org/2018/06/peopl...theories-51447

People who overestimate their political knowledge are more likely to believe conspiracy theories
By ERIC W. DOLAN June 11, 2018

People who overestimate their understanding of political issues are more likely to believe conspiracy theories, according to new research that appears in the European Journal for Social Psychology.

“Conspiracy theories about government actors and institutions are widespread across the political ideological spectrum,” remarked study author Joseph A. Vitriol, a postdoctoral research associate at Lehigh University. “These beliefs attribute outsized influence to hidden actors or clandestine groups who are perceived as the root cause of an important world event, action, or outcome.”

“Because conspiracy beliefs often preserve discredited assumptions or serve as a basis for dismissing information that challenges one’s worldview, they are often difficult to correct (as is true for many political misperceptions) and can therefore undermine the ability for citizens to effectively and ethically engage in the political process.”

“Indeed, these beliefs are not constrained to the politically disengaged or the uninformed. Instead, conspiracy theories are commonly endorsed and propagated by actors at the highest levels of political power and, as a result, are consequential for public policy,” Vitriol said.

“In short, conspiracy beliefs are important influences on citizens’ political judgment and behavior. This can undermine the ability of elected officials to address problems in society with evidence-based public policy and governance. By investigating the psychological underpinning of conspiracy beliefs, we are better able to understand how these beliefs form and spread. We are also better able to identify strategies for informing or educating the public and combating the influence of false and fabricated information on political psychology and behavior.”

(more at the link)
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:46 AM   #106
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:50 AM   #107
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The crazy cannot be contained. Whats more, the crazy has no self recognition of their own crazy.
Ya do have quite the point there. The insane don't know that they're crazy, the stupid don't know that they're dumb, and the ignorant are the same way. Crazy, dumb, and ignorant people don't have the awareness of self to recognize those issues. But denial is a whole entirely different animal. Then it's back to attention seeking behavior which is just a sign of crazy
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:31 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by banecat View Post
She has somewhat a point about slavery being used to push the leftist agenda. I've only heard it used as an argument against state's rights before. But that was before Trump was in office. I'll have to start asking what they think of them now
Canoworms is a she? I thought I was the one making the point about "slavery being used to push the leftist agenda" not canoworms? I am confused by your post quoting me.

I was thinking along the lines of Friedrich Hayek's The Road to Serfdom regarding the left pushing pushing government control of economic decision-making through central planning leading to tyranny whereby the individual becomes a slave to the state. Afterall, slavery in the past was an economic issue too. There wasn't enough of a labor market for large plantations when people settled here at first.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:32 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by banecat View Post
Ya do have quite the point there. The insane don't know that they're crazy, the stupid don't know that they're dumb, and the ignorant are the same way. Crazy, dumb, and ignorant people don't have the awareness of self to recognize those issues. But denial is a whole entirely different animal. Then it's back to attention seeking behavior which is just a sign of crazy
I don't see how his post says anything except to mock others who don't think like him. He rarely makes an intelligent post these days but uses this go-to argument for just about anything he disagrees with.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by banecat View Post
Ya do have quite the point there. The insane don't know that they're crazy, the stupid don't know that they're dumb, and the ignorant are the same way. Crazy, dumb, and ignorant people don't have the awareness of self to recognize those issues. But denial is a whole entirely different animal. Then it's back to attention seeking behavior which is just a sign of crazy
It should be enough to observe around here that a person who believes in any one conspiracy theory is also pretty likely to believe in any other conspiracy theory. The way these people's minds work, evidence against the theory doesn't prove there's nothing to it, it just proves the conspiracy goes deeper than anyone knows and those shadowy figures are working hard to ensure the truth doesnt' come out. (And - corollary - "they" are usually failing and panicking, and the lid is about to blow right off the entire thing) When you've convinced yourself that contrary evidence actually proves the theory you've gone down the rabbit hole.

It's just a way of coping with facts that are uncomfortable to someone, such as terrible things may happen in the world at any time, including to you and your loved ones, because that's how reality works. It's too hard for some people to accept the fact that they are helpless in the face of nature, random acts of malevolence, disease, terror, and that life may end at any time, or that the political winds may shift against you at any time, or that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It's a way of feeling like you can exercise control over some things that are uncontrollable in the world.

Believing that facts which assault your preconceived notions are not as they seem is much more comfortable than evaluating gaps that may exist in your own knowledge or worldview. It's easier to comfort one's self with pet sources and information that only confirms what you already believe.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:49 AM   #111
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Many people living today are just as wise (this is a statistical certainty). Values and circumstances are different. Modern values are clearly superior to those at that time that allowed slavery to exist. Circumstances are better too -- we don't shit in a bed pan and life expectancy is far beyond mid 30s.
To be fair, even 500 years ago if you made it to 20 years old you were likely to live until you were 60 or 70.

The reason mortality was so low was because nearly half of children would die before they were 5 years old.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:51 AM   #112
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In my former life - we based our decisions on facts by examining the evidence that was available to us at any given time.

I grew up during that period when Kennedy was killed. Using nothing more than speculation - and nothing else - I came to the conclusion that what we were being fed (Warren Commission) was a bunch of crap - mingled in with a smidgen of facts - designed to reach the conclusion that they wanted to give the American people.

[...]
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:55 AM   #113
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:55 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That didn't happen. At least, not their own lies.
Who's to say anyone lied?

Yanno, there's an option aside from 'being correct' and 'being a liar'.

It's called: "being wrong", and it happens all the time.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:58 AM   #115
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No, it's actually not. That's the funny part. The definition of a conspiracy is an explanation of an event that defies logic. It's an explanation that contributes a hypothesis that contradicts the prevailing understanding of facts. Most often contributed the imagined results to the prevailing government.
Can you link this definition?

I've never seen the word used to mean 'an explanation that defies logic'.

Conspiracy is something you can be charged with by law enforcement, and it has nothing to do with logic. It's about secretly planning something that's harmful.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:00 AM   #116
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There's plenty of people who overestimate their political knowledge who are 100% always against conspiracy theories. I'll tell you who one of them is—Sean Hannity. Let's see if the lefties here agree. I'll bet they do. Eleazar and HCF are some here.
Uhh.. the idea that Hillary and her 'deep state' allies had Seth Rich murdered is absolutely a conspiracy theory. If fits squarely.

Group - Hillary and deep state
secret - That he was murdered
Harm - Seth Rich died.

Hannity obviously isn't 100% against EVERY conspiracy theory, and a lot of conservatives talking trash about it aren't against every conspiracy theory either.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:00 AM   #117
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Who's to say anyone lied?

Yanno, there's an option aside from 'being correct' and 'being a liar'.

It's called: "being wrong", and it happens all the time.
Yes, I agree. My caveat is intended to cover any lies told by informants like the infamous Curveball. My position is that what Bush administration leadership got wrong about Iraq in the lead up to the Iraq War were mistakes, not lies.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:03 AM   #118
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Yes, I agree. My caveat is intended to cover any lies told by informants like the infamous Curveball. My position is that what Bush administration leadership got wrong about Iraq in the lead up to the Iraq War were mistakes, not lies.
Yeah and what was their mistake?

Trusting the (apparently infallible) intelligence community.

The idea that Bush is both a moron and capable of such a conspiracy are ideas mutually held by a lot of people and they're simply not congruent with each other at all.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Randallflagg View Post
In my former life - we based our decisions on facts by examining the evidence that was available to us at any given time.

I grew up during that period when Kennedy was killed. Using nothing more than speculation - and nothing else - I came to the conclusion that what we were being fed (Warren Commission) was a bunch of crap - mingled in with a smidgen of facts - designed to reach the conclusion that they wanted to give the American people.
This is a little bit different than loony conspiracy theories like newtown-didn't-happen and others like it. We have plenty of good evidence to examine for Newtown. There are many living witnesses. There is extensive documentation from sources who are still around can still be questioned. There is photographic evidence and autopsy reports. There are plenty of living people who knew the victims. There are many family and extended family members living who can verify facts. There is video, physical evidence, photographic evidence which has been recorded. There are no real questions about them in the mind of a reasonable observer.

In the case of Kennedy, I think a person can raise legitimate questions about whether Oswald acted alone because many of the necessary facts are not available. The primary facts being sought died with Oswald before he could provide any meaningful information. There are questions that can never be answered about whether anyone was behind him, or if anyone else was in on it. He didn't live to recant or change his story or try to make a deal. Anyone who was old enough to be deeply involved in a government conspiracy in 1963 and could provide new information would likely be dead now. And nothing new has come out about it essentially since the days and weeks after it happened. There legitimately are questions that will never be answered about the Kennedy Assassination.

But there's nobody out there saying that the Kennedy Assassination did not happen. Nobody is saying it was a remote controlled fake car full of rubber dummies, that all the witnesses in Dealy Plaza are plants and liars, that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby and JD Tippitt didn't exist, that the Zapruder film was shot in a Hollywood basement, and that Jackie Kennedy was a crisis actor. That's entirely different.

Speculation about something that happened 60 years ago and for which no no evidence exists or is ever likely to emerge is one thing. Rejecting perfectly reasonable, verifiable, and widely accepted facts about Newtown or Vegas or Parkland is kookery.

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Old 06-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #120
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Yeah and what was their mistake?

Trusting the (apparently infallible) intelligence community.

The idea that Bush is both a moron and capable of such a conspiracy are ideas mutually held by a lot of people and they're simply not congruent with each other at all.
The intelligence they presented was mistaken, as opposed to fabricated. That's the mistake I'm talking about.

I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing. I agree with the point in your last paragraph though.
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