Official 2012-2013 NBA Thread

[Al Bundy]

Looks like James Harden has been To the Rockets for Jeremey Lamb, Kevin Martin and future picks. Plus... this is a general NBA thread.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Guess who won his first championship at a younger age than Michael Jordan (28)? LeBron James. It's almost like people forget that sometimes when they get into mythologizing MJ and denigrating LeBron's accomplishments. LeBron is actually ahead of where Jordan was at the same age (both statistically and with team success) and he isn't going to go off and suck at baseball for two years during his prime either in some kind of ego trip.

And that's another funny thing when people compare LeBron and Kobe right now. While Kobe's career is winding down (he says he'll retire after next year, I'm not sure I buy it), we haven't even reached the pinnacle of what LeBron will surely do in this game. It's just the beginning.

Well I was never talking about Kobe and Lebron so we can eliminate that paragraph. Your first paragraph doesn't really address any of my post, which wasn't about pace of championships. The issue Lebron faces is about the image he partially created, and the issue MJ didn't face. Lebron is expected to measure up to MJ, and when he does things differently it bothers people. That's not always fair to Lebron, but it still exists.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by tk13

Hootie's got me watching old footage on YouTube now. I could watch Magic and Bird pass the ball all day long. Can you imagine if guys could do this stuff in the SportsCenter era today.

Watch the Spurs play. They have great passing from the whole team. They're not Sportscenter darlings so you don't see it much on ESPN.

[Hootie]

I've always been consistent with Milkman when it comes to football history...I don't comment on things I didn't see personally. I saw Magic and Bird during the 'Dream Team' and a little before where I was old enough to "remember", but never in their primes. Hell, I barely saw Jordan in his athletic "prime." I was 7 in '92 and 8 in '93 and don't even think I saw/remember 1 game of his title against the Lakers (though I saw clips/highlights over the years of course).

All I know is I had every book, knew every stat, watched every highlight, kept EVERY SINGLE CHICAGO TRIBUNE THE DAY AFTER ALL 6 OF THEIR TITLES...I may sensationalize it a bit since I was 10, 11, 12 and 13 when I saw Jordan OWN the world but from my eyes, my perspective...he was BIGGER than life.

The dude literally has 15 FINALS MOMENTS that are better than anything Kobe ever did from '96-'98 alone. I'm fairly certain Stockton, Hornacek (god I hate him), and Malone have MJ nightmares to this day...

the dude hit them with so many daggers it was sickening...the flu game, game 1 in 97, "the shot" part two...

everyone just knew...pretty sure Jerry Sloan knew when they were drawing up plays at the end...pretty sure in '97 when they decided to not guard anyone but Jordan where Kerr made 'that shot' everyone knew...

shit, MJ told Kerr before that play "hey they are going to double me so you're getting the ball and you're going to MAKE THAT ****ING SHOT."

there is never going to be another competitor like MJ again...I just don't think it's possible...and I'm pretty sure he's miserable right now because of it

either way...he is why I am the way I am today...an absolute sports diehard...CRAVING one more time in my life to LOVE something like I used to love the MJ Bulls...

I try every year for the Chiefs to satisfy that need for me and they never do...it's to the point that if we ever win a Super Bowl I just don't know how I'll feel. I yearn for the feeling I used to have watching the celebrations at Grant Park on WGN as a kid after they won...

[NJChiefsFan]

We are the same age, so we probably saw about the same amount of MJ, although you growing up in Chicago probably put him in your face more than mine.

[Hootie]

I went to elementary school in KC and spent my summers in Illinois. Either way, every Bulls game used to be on WGN so the entire country got to see all of MJ's games.

That was always awesome. I remember watching game 1 of the 1997 NBA Finals against Utah where MJ hit the game winner at the buzzer in my basement in Overland Park with my step-brother and his cousin. I was pumped. I think I tackled one of them.

It was 'swish', 'fist-pump', game.

Rodman was SO FAR into Malone's head...man, Malone was a classic choker. Letting Jordan steal the ball to set up the "shot" in 98 and missing two free throws before Jordan's game winner in the aforementioned 1997 game 1.

Game tied, Malone at the line...misses both...Jordan hits game winner at buzzer...series over after 1 game and you just knew it.

Rodman really owned in 96 and 97. He was great. Especially against the Sonics.

[Hootie]

I also remember having a ridiculous temper tantrum when Nick Anderson stole the ball from MJ in '95 when MJ came back and they lost the series to Orlando...I went to my room and locked the door in a fit of rage and couldn't believe MJ actually let me down...

of course that was the ONLY TIME that ever happened again and he went on to win 72 games the next year and destroy the playoffs so...

[Hootie]

I can still remember throwing the remote, storming up to my room, locking the door, and screaming into my pillow for 15 minutes after they lost to Orlando. I was 10. It was probably quite unhealthy.

[ImAWalkingCorpse]

I remember the Bulls before Jordan... Very few fans, hell after Jordan, very few fans. Although if you grew up in a city that didn't have an NBA team there were only a few teams on TV for you to watch.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess

I can still remember throwing the remote, storming up to my room, locking the door, and screaming into my pillow for 15 minutes after they lost to Orlando. I was 10. It was probably quite unhealthy.

My youngest freak out happened in 95 with the Yankees losing to the Mariners. Followed closely by some missed kicks in multiple games for KC.....

[Hootie]

I remember watching the Chiefs/Bills AFCC game in my neighbors house in my friend's room on a shitty TV and Montana threw a pick that (and I was young) bounced off of a Chiefs player (?) so we said **** it and went outside and starting shooting hoops.

We had a party at my house with one of those party subs from Subway for the Oilers game and I remember laughing hysterically as a 7 or 8 year old kid when Keith Cash spiked the ball off of Buddy Ryan's face on his charity sign or whatever...

I liked Keith Cash a lot.

[ImAWalkingCorpse]

Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess

I remember watching the Chiefs/Bills AFCC game in my neighbors house in my friend's room on a shitty TV and Montana threw a pick that (and I was young) bounced off of a Chiefs player (?) so we said **** it and went outside and starting shooting hoops.

We had a party at my house with one of those party subs from Subway for the Oilers game and I remember laughing hysterically as a 7 or 8 year old kid when Keith Cash spiked the ball off of Buddy Ryan's face on his charity sign or whatever...

I liked Keith Cash a lot.

I think that player was Kimble Anders.

[Jerm]

MJ's facial on Ewing is still the sickest NBA moment ever...I could watch that on a continuous loop for a long time...

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Well I was never talking about Kobe and Lebron so we can eliminate that paragraph. Your first paragraph doesn't really address any of my post, which wasn't about pace of championships. The issue Lebron faces is about the image he partially created, and the issue MJ didn't face. Lebron is expected to measure up to MJ, and when he does things differently it bothers people. That's not always fair to Lebron, but it still exists.

There wasn't really anything to address. It was basically just coming up with reasons not to like LeBron (such as him being on a "Super Team" when that's exactly what Jordan's Bulls were). It really doesn't matter to me whether anybody can find it in their hearts to like the guy or anybody thinks he has an image problem (although he comes off as far less of an egotistical asshole than guys like MJ and Kobe). What matters is that LeBron is actually ahead of where MJ was at the same age. What matters is that LeBron has a ton of time left to form whatever legacy it is people want out of him.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

By the way... I've said before that LeBron is basically Peyton Manning. Then somebody threw in that Peyton Manning was a horrible playoff performer. That's not what the statistics say:
http://www.bsports.com/statsinsights...yoff-struggles

Even if the stats say that Peyton was a great playoff performer, we all know that he isn't nearly as good as these stats say. LeBron is the same way (although LeBron has rarely had off games in the playoffs. But in terms of the last 5 minutes of the game... he doesn't dominate the same way Jordan did). To me, Jordan is like Marino with the clutchness of Joe Montana. LeBron is Peyton Manning.

As mentioned many times before, LeBron is the 3rd in WS/48 in NBA Playoff history behind only Jordan or Mikan. Yeah, he just sucks in the playoffs.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._career_p.html

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

There wasn't really anything to address. It was basically just coming up with reasons not to like LeBron (such as him being on a "Super Team" when that's exactly what Jordan's Bulls were). It really doesn't matter to me whether anybody can find it in their hearts to like the guy or anybody thinks he has an image problem (although he comes off as far less of an egotistical asshole than guys like MJ and Kobe). What matters is that LeBron is actually ahead of where MJ was at the same age. What matters is that LeBron has a ton of time left to form whatever legacy it is people want out of him.

I wouldn't say Jordan's Bulls were a super-team. At least this post is at things I actually said, instead of quoting me and arguing something I was never talking about. It's not really excuses, it's just reality. MJ, whether from nostalgia or whatever it is, has the image of a warrior to fall on. I think that stirs up the imagination. Lebron needs to capture that I think. Maybe he has to do it in his own way. Obviously the guy has plenty of time to do so. I just think it would be more interesting if D Wade wasn't by his side. I really have never liked Wade at all.

I hated Lebron when he left CLE. I really was rooting for him to win there. I don't like MIA and I don't like Bosh or Wade. I think those are things going against him too, as far as his like-ability goes. Comparing them skill-wise is a different argument, but if we are talking about how people view them, I think my previous post shows factors that matter. Lebron can put up all the stats he wants, if he never puts up a legacy of being clutch it's going to be hard to surpass Michael.