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Old 05-04-2018, 11:28 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Mueller slammed by Judge in Manfort Case

U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday sharply criticized Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s criminal case in Virginia against President Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and openly questioned whether Mueller exceeded his prosecutorial powers by bringing it.

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

At a tense hearing at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, the judge said Mueller should not have “unfettered power” in his Russia probe and that the charges against Manafort did not arise from the investigation into Moscow’s alleged meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.

“It’s unlikely you’re going to persuade me the special counsel has unfettered power to do whatever he wants,” said Ellis, who was appointed to the bench by Republican President Ronald Reagan.

Manafort is facing charges in both Virginia and Washington. The Virginia case charges him with offenses including tax and bank fraud.

The other case in Washington accuses him of conspiring to launder money and failing to register as a foreign agent when he lobbied for the pro-Russia Ukrainian government.

None of the charges relate, however, to Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign or possible collusion with Russia. Trump has denied any collusion.

Manafort’s attorney Kevin Downing has argued that the charges must dismissed because the FBI investigation dates back to 2014, and therefore did not arise from Mueller’s probe.

The bulk of Friday’s questions by the judge were aimed squarely at Michael Dreeben, the deputy solicitor general who is currently working in Mueller’s office.

While Dreeben conceded that Mueller had inherited the probe into Manafort after his May 2017 appointment by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, he insisted the office is on solid legal ground and has the power to proceed with prosecuting the case.

“Our investigative scope does cover the activity” in the indictment,” Dreeben told the judge.

“Cover bank fraud in 2005 and 2007? Tell me how!” Ellis retorted.

Friday marked the third time now that Manafort has tried to get the charges against him dropped.

He first filed a civil case alleging the Justice Department’s order appointing Mueller was overly broad in violation of Justice Department rules, but the case was tossed last month.

He is also seeking to get the Washington-based criminal charges against him dismissed on similar legal grounds that were presented to the Virginia judge on Friday.

The federal judge in Washington, Amy Berman Jackson, has not yet ruled on the request to dismiss that indictment.

Friday, however, marked the first time that Manafort’s arguments about the scope of Mueller’s powers appeared to have gained some traction.

During the oral arguments, Ellis repeatedly chided Mueller’s $10 million budget.

He also asked whether Rosenstein, who oversees the probe and is considered an important witness into whether Trump tried to obstruct justice, is recused from the case.

And he repeatedly claimed that the indictment appeared to serve as a way for Mueller to “assert leverage” over Manafort.

“The vernacular,” he said “is to sing.”

Ellis did not issue a ruling on Manafort’s motion to dismiss the indictment Friday.


But he asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no “reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank” could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI’s probe into Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen, and mused that the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Dreeben declined to discuss the Cohen case, but said that Mueller’s probe into Manafort was authorized by Rosenstein.

Rosenstein’s May 2017 order laying out the scope of the probe, he told the judge, did not reveal all the details because they involve sensitive national security and counterintelligence matters that could not be divulged publicly, but were conveyed to Mueller.

Ellis balked, saying Dreeben’s answer essentially means the Justice Department was “not really telling the truth” about the probe and invites someone to respond by saying, “Come on, man!”

Dreeben also stressed that Rosenstein wrote another memo two months later, in August 2017, explicitly granting Mueller the power to investigate Manafort’s Ukraine dealings years before the 2016 election.

Ellis complained that the bulk of that August memo he has received was highly redacted.

He directed Mueller’s office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they will sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

“I’ll be the judge,” Ellis said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1I51WE
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:35 AM   #106
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Because Rosenstein authorized Mueller to do this:

any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation
If the scope is what you think it is, why do you think Rosenstein forced Mueller to spin the Cohen investigation off?
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:09 AM   #107
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If the scope is what you think it is, why do you think Rosenstein forced Mueller to spin the Cohen investigation off?
And why did Rosenstein have to issue a second approval for Manafort almost 2 weeks after he was raided?

This whole thing has Mueller's thumbprint all over it when you look at how he has handled things int he past. And most likely, a lot of his shit won't stick.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:12 AM   #108
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Let's just pray the tables are turned on Mueller, and he gets to feel what it's like to be witch hunted investigated. No bounds, not even family, they just look into everything and anything "Mueller", his clan, and anything they may have done since birth.
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:59 AM   #109
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I don’t even know how many federal criminal cases I’ve handled. Judges don’t do this to federal prosecutors. This is a gigantic red flag to the Mueller investigation.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:03 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by frozenchief View Post
I don’t even know how many federal criminal cases I’ve handled. Judges don’t do this to federal prosecutors. This is a gigantic red flag to the Mueller investigation.


We’ll find out soon.

Here’s what I think will happen. I think ultimately he’ll let the case go forward. I think this was a little judicial “cool your jets a bit, hoss” moment.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:31 AM   #111
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We’ll find out soon.

Here’s what I think will happen. I think ultimately he’ll let the case go forward. I think this was a little judicial “cool your jets a bit, hoss” moment.
I think it will go forward but this is the judge putting the prosecutor on notice that if he detects shenanigans the trial is going to get sunk very quickly.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:31 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy! View Post
We’ll find out soon.

Here’s what I think will happen. I think ultimately he’ll let the case go forward. I think this was a little judicial “cool your jets a bit, hoss” moment.
I don’t think so. I think we’ve gotten into a race. Mueller’s team is racing to find something to charge Trump with while the noose tightens around Comey, McCabe et al. The timing and contents of the OIG report and the identities of cooperators will be crucial.

It sounds like the Manafort case could be referred to US Attorney for Eastern Virginia While Flynn May withdraw his plea. Flynn withdrawing his plea would really hurt Mueller’s credibility and thus his investigation.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:45 AM   #113
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I don’t even know how many federal criminal cases I’ve handled. Judges don’t do this to federal prosecutors. This is a gigantic red flag to the Mueller investigation.
Are you saying Federal Judges don't opine from the bench or challenge the Prosecution. I mean, granted, every judge has their style, but this one is apparently known for creating a little court room drama. I don't think the flag is as big nor as red as you think it is, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:42 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Are you saying Federal Judges don't opine from the bench or challenge the Prosecution. I mean, granted, every judge has their style, but this one is apparently known for creating a little court room drama. I don't think the flag is as big nor as red as you think it is, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.
I’m saying that to so overtly challenge the prosecution’s theories doesn’t happen. I’ve seen judges ask questions like “But how do you compare that with the Smith case?” Or “Didn’t the witness say X?” and have a discussion.

I have never seen a Judge go after someone either with this hostility or for the very basis of the prosecution. I think it’s a huge red flag because independent referees (and federal judges in particular pride themselves on their independence and fidelity to the law) are now on the record as saying that this investigation appears fundamentally flawed. The judge also noted the use of the wrong warrant, which is why his order to produce the unpredicted Rosenstein memo is enormously significant. That right there means the judge is questioning the legitimacy of the investigation or its scope and is prepared to potentially reign it in.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:07 PM   #115
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I’m saying that to so overtly challenge the prosecution’s theories doesn’t happen. I’ve seen judges ask questions like “But how do you compare that with the Smith case?” Or “Didn’t the witness say X?” and have a discussion.

I have never seen a Judge go after someone either with this hostility or for the very basis of the prosecution. I think it’s a huge red flag because independent referees (and federal judges in particular pride themselves on their independence and fidelity to the law) are now on the record as saying that this investigation appears fundamentally flawed. The judge also noted the use of the wrong warrant, which is why his order to produce the unpredicted Rosenstein memo is enormously significant. That right there means the judge is questioning the legitimacy of the investigation or its scope and is prepared to potentially reign it in.
That might be the case, but I think some Judges might say "In my quarters...", some may just have them "Approach the bench..." and a few others might blurt it out for all to hear, which seems to be his style on the few profiles I could read about him:

“Nominated by Ronald Reagan on July 1, 1987, to a seat vacated by Robert R. Merhige. Confirmed by the Senate on August 5, 1987, and received commission on August 6, 1987. Assumed senior status on April 1, 2007,” his biography on the FJC page says. (Merhige had famously presided over Richmond, Virginia school desegregation cases, among others.)

“He is known for his sense of humor, his long digressions and his demanding and somewhat confrontational attitude toward the lawyers who appear before him,” The Washington Post reported of Ellis.

Personally, I think its a good thing and demonstrates the strength of the Justice System, which Trump is all too willing to throw under the bus when it suits his needs. If the Prosecution needs to be challenged, then challenge it. I just think this looks bigger because until this point there really hasn't been a lot of legal pushback against Mueller, and if he needs to tidy up some points in the interest of Justice, then it should be noted. I still don't believe it will result in the case being thrown out with a 50/50 chance it gets thrown to another Federal jurisdiction.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:31 PM   #116
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Well the judge, so far, is being nice the Mueller because he hasn't informed the family that they'll be charged for the instrument used for suiciding Mueller.

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Old 05-07-2018, 09:31 AM   #117
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The Judge does not like Democrats.

This judge is in the bag, deep for the GOP.
So you don't like biased judges?

Oh the irony of it!

Next you're going to try and tell me that the 9th Circuit Circuit isn't 100% biased or that 75% of judges in this country lean left.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:35 AM   #118
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DEMS TRASH FEDERAL JUDGE FOR QUESTIONING SCOPE OF MUELLER POWER
https://news.grabien.com/story-dems-...-mueller-power


I said it was coming and well..here it is
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:46 AM   #119
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DEMS TRASH FEDERAL JUDGE FOR QUESTIONING SCOPE OF MUELLER POWER
https://news.grabien.com/story-dems-...-mueller-power


I said it was coming and well..here it is
Meanwhile, conservatives continue to trash the justice department, the FBI, our intelligence agencies for daring to investigate a republican.

/blue lives matter
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:06 AM   #120
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Meanwhile, conservatives continue to trash the justice department, the FBI, our intelligence agencies for daring to investigate a republican.

/blue lives matter
Poor guy.....
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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