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Old 04-15-2018, 08:28 PM  
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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The people we disagree with are not our enemies

Liberals aren’t stupid. Conservatives aren’t racist. The people we disagree with are not our enemies

BY MARC A. THIESSEN

Washington Post Writers Group
March 21, 2018 08:30 PM
Updated March 21, 2018 08:30 PM

I’m a rock-ribbed conservative who wants Republicans to keep control of Congress. But I’m not unhappy that Republican state Rep. Rick Saccone appears to have lost the special election in Pennsylvania’s 18th Congressional District.

Why? Because he insulted my mother.

Trailing his Democratic opponent in a district President Donald Trump won by 20 points, but which still has more registered Democrats than Republicans, Saccone hit on a genius idea to turn out the vote: At a campaign rally just before voters went to the polls, he declared that liberals hate America and hate God. “I’ve talked to so many of these on the left,” he said. “And I tell you, many of them have a hatred for our country. … My wife and I saw it again today: They have a hatred for God.”

My mother is a liberal Democrat, and I can tell you: She does not hate America or God. Quite the opposite — she is one of the most patriotic people I know. She grew up in Nazi-occupied Poland, fought with the Polish underground, was taken to Germany as a prisoner of war, was liberated by Patton’s Army and moved to London. Eventually, she became a doctor and made her way to the United States, where she became a U.S. citizen.

There is no one prouder to be an American. When Poland held its first free elections in 1989, Polish Americans living in the United States were invited to vote. Many did so, but my mom refused. She loved the land of her birth, but she was an American citizen now and would not vote in a foreign election. When someone hears her thick Polish accent they often ask, “Where are you from?” She answers proudly: “New York City.”

She’s also a proud Democrat. We disagree about politics, but we both love America and want to make this country great. We just have different ideas about the best ways to do it.

So when Saccone says liberals hate America, he’s talking about my mother. I take it personally. And you should, too.

Whether you are liberal, conservative or in between, I’ll bet that you have a loved one who disagrees with you about politics. It might be a sibling or a parent or a beloved cousin, aunt or uncle — or even your kids. We should not stand for politicians from either party who insult them or question their motives or their patriotism.

Too often, politicians on both the left and right do just that. We saw this recently when, during an event in India, Hillary Clinton insultingly claimed that Trump won the parts of the country that weren’t “moving forward.” She said those voters liked what she characterized as Trump’s message that “you know you didn’t like black people getting rights. You don’t like women, you know, getting jobs. You don’t want, you know, to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are.” If you have a loved one who didn’t vote for Clinton in 2016, you should be offended. I doubt the people you love are against civil rights, or women working, or people of color succeeding. They just thought Clinton was a terrible choice for president — an impression she confirmed with those comments.

We see it in the gun control debate that followed the Parkland, Fla., school shooting. Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy said that if you’re not in favor of immediate action on guns, “you’re an accomplice” to the Parkland killer. Seriously? Do you have a loved one who disagrees with you about gun control? Are they accomplices to mass murder? No, they just disagree that gun control is the solution.

The problem exists on both sides of the aisle, and it’s not just politicians. American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks recalls how a few years ago he was giving a speech at a large conservative event. “I said that while my own views are center-right, I have no reason to believe progressives are stupid or evil,” he recalls. “An audience member countered, ‘You’re wrong: They are stupid and evil.’”

Progressives are not stupid and evil. Conservatives are not racists and misogynists. Our fellow Americans who disagree with us are not our enemies. They are our fellow Americans who differ with us. And we should not put up with politicians, on the left or right, who can’t seem to understand this.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:59 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
He thinks if he can shout his preferred reframing of the argument enough times it will take.
You think if you scream about virtue signaling and identity politics, no will notice that is exactly what you do all the time.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:00 AM   #137
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There was merit to discussing the OP. We could and can disagree without being divisive. Then we see the impact of being disagreeable on dialog. Dialog halts.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:03 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Expanding the definition beyond stereotypical judgments based on skin color.

Making the argument that philosophical differences between people of different skin color are secretly or implicitly based on skin color instead of the philosophical difference.

Making the argument that criticism of cultural and lifestyle decisions are bigotry and racism rather than criticism of DECISIONS.

Promoting the nonsense about microaggression and privilege instead of simply treating every individual as unique and deserving of respect.

Assuming as established that all instances of disparate impact or structural inequality are based in racial animus or some sense of supremacy.

Just to start.

It is morally wrong to attribute unfounded characteristics, propensities, abilities, etc. on the basis of skin color. This moral wrong is founded on the fact that skin color is something an individual has no control over, and is an artifact of the circumstances of birth.

It is not morally wrong in itself, or in so self-evident a manner, to criticize the decisions people make. This is part of the 'purposeful' left's aim to shift the moral currency in stating that racism is wrong into a broader proposition that minorities are immune from judgment or participating the social dialog [save as dispensers of wisdom] because their oppression is assumed and their shortcomings, wrong ideas, or ill-founded philosophies are excusable and indeed laudable as woke, or enlightened, or simply progressive.

In all, I best sum it up as treating each individual as a unique creation with a unique story, worthy of respect until such time as their own actions deprive them of that worth. Don't let the balance of history [personal or universal] persuade you to take shortcuts in your assessment of any individual by assuming they are like anyone else you've encountered before, whether that's by appearance, complexion, clothing, body language, grammar, etc.

Let the individual tell his or her own story. But once it's told, feel free to judge the story he or she has personally told you.
There you are again, standing on a soap box, lecturing us on your own moral correctness while saying absolutely nothing but meaningless generalizations all why trying to blame the left.

Of course, there is a reason you have to promote this brand of virtue signaling through generalizations, you couldn't get specific with specific examples if your tried.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:04 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
*crickets* /Loneiguana’s leftwing pals
There is no one, left, right or center, who has ever once thought he made a cogent point.

At this point he's more of an embarrassment to the rational left than he is an irritation to the rest of us.

Like Flava-Flav being the face of Public Enemy.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:06 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
There was merit to discussing the OP. We could and can disagree without being divisive. Then we see the impact of being disagreeable on dialog. Dialog halts.

this, this, THIS, this!!!!!!
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:07 AM   #141
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
There is no one, left, right or center, who has ever once thought he made a cogent point.

At this point he's more of an embarrassment to the rational left than he is an irritation to the rest of us.

Like Flava-Flav being the face of Public Enemy.
You only look more and more pathetic by cowardly not responding to my posts while talking about me through other people's post.

Here is the third time you had to lie about me by responding to someone else's posts. You butthurt is very noticeable when you have to pull out the internet tough guy card of "well, no one ever agrees with him, so there!"

What are you, 12?

Go lecture others on your own moral correctness more.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:09 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Easy:



Here Babble lee is standing on a soap box, lecturing us on his own self righteousness that he is against generalizations. This is him getting ready to demonstrate his own moral correctness.



Here babble lee is, despite claiming to be against generalizations, generalizing all the left.

He also goes "both sides do this thing, but the left is a lot worse than the right", which is just "both sides are bad so vote republican."



There babble lee is, again, generalizing the left while going "yeah the right has a few bad apples, but let me tell you how the left is a lot worst" , or " both sides are bad so vote republican."

This is very easy to point out. Look for the "right does this, but the left does this worse" template.

Its a very standard and stereotypical virtue signaling from the right. Babble lee is expressing an opinion of his own moral correctness of his position by generalizing the left, something he likes to lecture others about.

He isn't the first and won't be the last. "Both sides are bad so vote republican" is one of the rights favorite argumentative and virtue signaling tools.

Here is another posters:



"Both sides are bad but the problem is the left and people who don't stand up enough to the left so vote republican".

See, this is easy.



The right = Americans with a bit of victim playing.

Down play and hand wave away the problems on the right right after talking about how the problem is the left. Both sides are bad, but the democrats are worst, so vote republican.

Its the same virtue signaling of bablee lee.

"Look, I am being moderate, see, I said those racists are bad. So what If I also said the left does it worst and downplayed those racists as insignificant. Look at my self righteous and morally correct opinion!"

Nothing worse or a bigger part of the problem than a bunch of self righteous unaware idiots lecture others on the own false sense of moral correctness, doing exactly what the rant at others about."
Got it. You could have tried to refute those points, but instead you reframed their arguments to what they didn't say, and then hit them over their heads with it.

classic guano, you are the problem...
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:10 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
this, this, THIS, this!!!!!!
"We were having a perfectly good virtue signaling circle jerk where we all agreed the left does all this stuff worse and were patting ourselves on the back for our own self righteousness, why did this guy have to come and point out our bull shit!!!!"

"Just let us generalize and demonize the left in peace!!"

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Old 04-17-2018, 07:12 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
"We were having a perfectly good virtue signaling circle jerk where we all agreed the left does all this stuff worse and were patting ourselves on the back for our own self righteousness, why did this guy have to come and point out our bull shit!!!!"

"Just let us generalize and demonize the left in peace!!"

you do realize that before you arrived in the thread it was a left/right discussion with posters on both sides, correct?
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:13 AM   #145
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Got it. You could have tried to refute those points, but instead you reframed their arguments to what they didn't say, and then hit them over their heads with it.

classic guano, you are the problem...
I did refute those points by quoting those posts and saying something like: "Here babble lee is, again, complaining on what he perceives to be generalizations while, again, generalizing everyone who he disagrees agree with. The usual bull shit of hand waving away things you agree with while restlessly attacking everyone else."

That's in post 56.

Oh, and I didn't reframe anything.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:15 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
you do realize that before you arrived in the thread it was a left/right discussion with posters on both sides, correct?
"We were having a perfectly good virtue signaling circle jerk where we all agreed the left does all this stuff worse and were patting ourselves on the back for our own self righteousness, why did this guy have to come and point out our bull shit!!!!"

"Just let us generalize and demonize the left in peace!!"
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:18 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
"We were having a perfectly good virtue signaling circle jerk where we all agreed the left does all this stuff worse and were patting ourselves on the back for our own self righteousness, why did this guy have to come and point out our bull shit!!!!"

"Just let us generalize and demonize the left in peace!!"
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:20 AM   #148
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CP and the world in general would benefit greatly with loneiquanas removal.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:20 AM   #149
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Yes yes, I know. Standard conservative response when called out on the usual bull shit of "there are bad apples on both sides, but the left does it worse and all."

About the response I expect from the conservatives on this board.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:20 AM   #150
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Lonignoramous is a perfect example of why liberals are the scourge of the Earth.

Actually damn near every liberal in this forum is a perfect example of why liberals suck.

Bear in mind I do distinguish between Democrat and Liberal but the DNC is moving so far left there wont be a way to distinguish before long.
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