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Old 04-15-2018, 08:28 PM  
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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The people we disagree with are not our enemies

Liberals aren’t stupid. Conservatives aren’t racist. The people we disagree with are not our enemies

BY MARC A. THIESSEN

Washington Post Writers Group
March 21, 2018 08:30 PM
Updated March 21, 2018 08:30 PM

I’m a rock-ribbed conservative who wants Republicans to keep control of Congress. But I’m not unhappy that Republican state Rep. Rick Saccone appears to have lost the special election in Pennsylvania’s 18th Congressional District.

Why? Because he insulted my mother.

Trailing his Democratic opponent in a district President Donald Trump won by 20 points, but which still has more registered Democrats than Republicans, Saccone hit on a genius idea to turn out the vote: At a campaign rally just before voters went to the polls, he declared that liberals hate America and hate God. “I’ve talked to so many of these on the left,” he said. “And I tell you, many of them have a hatred for our country. … My wife and I saw it again today: They have a hatred for God.”

My mother is a liberal Democrat, and I can tell you: She does not hate America or God. Quite the opposite — she is one of the most patriotic people I know. She grew up in Nazi-occupied Poland, fought with the Polish underground, was taken to Germany as a prisoner of war, was liberated by Patton’s Army and moved to London. Eventually, she became a doctor and made her way to the United States, where she became a U.S. citizen.

There is no one prouder to be an American. When Poland held its first free elections in 1989, Polish Americans living in the United States were invited to vote. Many did so, but my mom refused. She loved the land of her birth, but she was an American citizen now and would not vote in a foreign election. When someone hears her thick Polish accent they often ask, “Where are you from?” She answers proudly: “New York City.”

She’s also a proud Democrat. We disagree about politics, but we both love America and want to make this country great. We just have different ideas about the best ways to do it.

So when Saccone says liberals hate America, he’s talking about my mother. I take it personally. And you should, too.

Whether you are liberal, conservative or in between, I’ll bet that you have a loved one who disagrees with you about politics. It might be a sibling or a parent or a beloved cousin, aunt or uncle — or even your kids. We should not stand for politicians from either party who insult them or question their motives or their patriotism.

Too often, politicians on both the left and right do just that. We saw this recently when, during an event in India, Hillary Clinton insultingly claimed that Trump won the parts of the country that weren’t “moving forward.” She said those voters liked what she characterized as Trump’s message that “you know you didn’t like black people getting rights. You don’t like women, you know, getting jobs. You don’t want, you know, to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are.” If you have a loved one who didn’t vote for Clinton in 2016, you should be offended. I doubt the people you love are against civil rights, or women working, or people of color succeeding. They just thought Clinton was a terrible choice for president — an impression she confirmed with those comments.

We see it in the gun control debate that followed the Parkland, Fla., school shooting. Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy said that if you’re not in favor of immediate action on guns, “you’re an accomplice” to the Parkland killer. Seriously? Do you have a loved one who disagrees with you about gun control? Are they accomplices to mass murder? No, they just disagree that gun control is the solution.

The problem exists on both sides of the aisle, and it’s not just politicians. American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks recalls how a few years ago he was giving a speech at a large conservative event. “I said that while my own views are center-right, I have no reason to believe progressives are stupid or evil,” he recalls. “An audience member countered, ‘You’re wrong: They are stupid and evil.’”

Progressives are not stupid and evil. Conservatives are not racists and misogynists. Our fellow Americans who disagree with us are not our enemies. They are our fellow Americans who differ with us. And we should not put up with politicians, on the left or right, who can’t seem to understand this.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:47 PM   #106
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Jesus ****. Lone Iguana is insufferable. Now I remember why the hell I never come in this shithole.
Just put him on iggy. It improves the experience here considerably.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:51 PM   #107
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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"Waaah, how dare someone point out that these self proclaimed above the fray conservatives are generalizing and identity politicing the left, something they claim the left does worst than the right!'

"Don't mess with our narrative of both sides are bad so vote republican!!!!"
Welcome to ignore, dildo.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #108
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Just put him on iggy. It improves the experience here considerably.
Great minds think alike I suppose
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:53 PM   #109
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The right has actually done something far more sinister, which is rebranding their version of hatred and bigotry into what is now known as the alt-right. They have figured out that as long as you aren't out there calling people racial slurs or advocating for segregation, it's much more difficult to label you a racist. This movement that relies heavily on said race baiting has already infiltrated the White House and has a huge online presence with many prominent media figures. Has the right called out this movement for what it is? Of course not, and instead it has gained significant traction within the Republican party.

This movement you're talking about on the left is comprised of mostly confused college students with no leader, no ties to government, and no real media presence. If I wanted to denounce these people I wouldn't even know who to target or where to start. The right has created them to be some kind of boogeyman when the reality is they are mostly irrelevant in American politics. But they are an easy enemy to attack and unify against and allow grifters like Peterson and Rubin to obtain thousands of Patreon supporters by railing against them. Meanwhile, actual threats to our democracy and institutions continue to go unchecked.
I love the way you think a bunch of Tide pod chewing helpless idiots who couldn’t change a ****ing tire yet manage to stage organized demonstrations all over the country are leaderless.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:10 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
The right has actually done something far more sinister, which is rebranding their version of hatred and bigotry into what is now known as the alt-right. They have figured out that as long as you aren't out there calling people racial slurs or advocating for segregation, it's much more difficult to label you a racist. This movement that relies heavily on said race baiting has already infiltrated the White House and has a huge online presence with many prominent media figures. Has the right called out this movement for what it is? Of course not, and instead it has gained significant traction within the Republican party.

This movement you're talking about on the left is comprised of mostly confused college students with no leader, no ties to government, and no real media presence. If I wanted to denounce these people I wouldn't even know who to target or where to start. The right has created them to be some kind of boogeyman when the reality is they are mostly irrelevant in American politics. But they are an easy enemy to attack and unify against and allow grifters like Peterson and Rubin to obtain thousands of Patreon supporters by railing against them. Meanwhile, actual threats to our democracy and institutions continue to go unchecked.
Thank you for the laugh. I enjoyed and needed that.

And if you're sincere about not knowing where to set your sights on denouncing the problem people on the left, start here and follow the network. You'll be surprised where it leads -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:19 PM   #111
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Great minds think alike I suppose
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:21 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
The right has actually done something far more sinister, which is rebranding their version of hatred and bigotry into what is now known as the alt-right. They have figured out that as long as you aren't out there calling people racial slurs or advocating for segregation, it's much more difficult to label you a racist. This movement that relies heavily on said race baiting has already infiltrated the White House and has a huge online presence with many prominent media figures. Has the right called out this movement for what it is? Of course not, and instead it has gained significant traction within the Republican party.

This movement you're talking about on the left is comprised of mostly confused college students with no leader, no ties to government, and no real media presence. If I wanted to denounce these people I wouldn't even know who to target or where to start. The right has created them to be some kind of boogeyman when the reality is they are mostly irrelevant in American politics. But they are an easy enemy to attack and unify against and allow grifters like Peterson and Rubin to obtain thousands of Patreon supporters by railing against them. Meanwhile, actual threats to our democracy and institutions continue to go unchecked.
Sinister? If you aren't advocating racist ideas, you probably shouldn't be called a racist.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:32 PM   #113
NJChiefsFan27 NJChiefsFan27 is offline
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First off, I reject the allegation that there is a concerted rebranding effort to expressly refer to some notion of ingrained racism in different terms for the purpose of perpetuating it.
You can reject it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Quote:
More accurately, the left is seeking to do two things.

First to expand the definition of what is racist and bigoted to anything that does not comport with their political philosophy.

Second to insist that even those who do not express racist and bigoted rhetoric are engaging in dog whistle or coded rhetoric that have racist or bigoted implications.

The two are intertwined.
Dog-whistle politics are very real and extremely effective, and what you're saying is more or less confirmation of my earlier point. Unless somebody is advocating for a white ethnos state or using racial slurs, you reject any claims of racist intent.

I'll go back to a classic example of dog whistle politics, something we may even have discussed in the past. Do you think there was any racist intent behind Trump's birther attacks on Obama?

Quote:
There are many many things the 'purposeful' left are seeking to brand racist or bigoted that are not that at all, but are merely counter to their identity and demographic driven collectivist ends.
It's important to nail down exactly what you're talking about here, so I'm going to ask who the 'purposeful left' is here and what things they are branding as racist that simply aren't.

Quote:
The way you dismiss the efforts of the left as fringe confused disporia, suggests you haven't put a lot of thought into your reactions. You're simply responding basely to those who insist that 'they're racist and I'm not, join me.'
By all means, tell me who specifically I should direct my disapproval towards on the left. Which well known figure or politician embodies these views? I can point to countless examples on the right who have large followings that say vile shit. Please, tell me the grounds on which I should be fighting the overreach of identity politics and who should be drawing my criticism.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:35 PM   #114
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I love the way you think a bunch of Tide pod chewing helpless idiots who couldn’t change a ****ing tire yet manage to stage organized demonstrations all over the country are leaderless.
So who are they?
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:43 PM   #115
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Thank you for the laugh. I enjoyed and needed that.

And if you're sincere about not knowing where to set your sights on denouncing the problem people on the left, start here and follow the network. You'll be surprised where it leads -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole, but again, if you'd like to actually point out some people on the far left with an audience that espouse the kind of views you think I should be denouncing, by all means.

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Sinister? If you aren't advocating racist ideas, you probably shouldn't be called a racist.
Sure. I think it goes without saying that if you're not advocating for racist ideas you shouldn't be called a racist. Not everything that people say should be taken at face value though, either.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:48 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
The right has actually done something far more sinister, which is rebranding their version of hatred and bigotry into what is now known as the alt-right. They have figured out that as long as you aren't out there calling people racial slurs or advocating for segregation, it's much more difficult to label you a racist. This movement that relies heavily on said race baiting has already infiltrated the White House and has a huge online presence with many prominent media figures. Has the right called out this movement for what it is? Of course not, and instead it has gained significant traction within the Republican party.

This movement you're talking about on the left is comprised of mostly confused college students with no leader, no ties to government, and no real media presence. If I wanted to denounce these people I wouldn't even know who to target or where to start. The right has created them to be some kind of boogeyman when the reality is they are mostly irrelevant in American politics. But they are an easy enemy to attack and unify against and allow grifters like Peterson and Rubin to obtain thousands of Patreon supporters by railing against them. Meanwhile, actual threats to our democracy and institutions continue to go unchecked.
You're a loonie.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:55 PM   #117
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The problem is that the common enemy is government and that is the establishment, both parties converging into the same wasteful platform that favors the corrupt and the rich. And the flavor of the week is Bernie & Trump populists who want massive government to fight... government, in totally opposite but equally extreme ways. If the left & right would acknowledge the common enemy and compromised, we might get somewhere. Sadly, social politics has completely undermined any opportunity to do that.

On so many non-social issues, the best answer is in the middle of Bernie/Trump. It's sad that the two parties are so close yet so damn far away.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:55 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
The right has actually done something far more sinister, which is rebranding their version of hatred and bigotry into what is now known as the alt-right. They have figured out that as long as you aren't out there calling people racial slurs or advocating for segregation, it's much more difficult to label you a racist. This movement that relies heavily on said race baiting has already infiltrated the White House and has a huge online presence with many prominent media figures. Has the right called out this movement for what it is? Of course not, and instead it has gained significant traction within the Republican party.

This movement you're talking about on the left is comprised of mostly confused college students with no leader, no ties to government, and no real media presence. If I wanted to denounce these people I wouldn't even know who to target or where to start. The right has created them to be some kind of boogeyman when the reality is they are mostly irrelevant in American politics. But they are an easy enemy to attack and unify against and allow grifters like Peterson and Rubin to obtain thousands of Patreon supporters by railing against them. Meanwhile, actual threats to our democracy and institutions continue to go unchecked.
You have a future in fiction.

Alt-Right was a created term made up by the Progs. The attempt by the left to smear the moderates and Republicans as pure hate driven racists was the way they saw to deploy the minority voters to the polls...that failed. Just as their attempt to make the Dems the party of women...that failed.

Either you are trolling or you are a loon.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:11 PM   #119
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:11 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Thank you for the laugh. I enjoyed and needed that.

And if you're sincere about not knowing where to set your sights on denouncing the problem people on the left, start here and follow the network. You'll be surprised where it leads -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
184 organizations funded by Soros have been attacking Trump. I noticed the left here post from Media Matters and Move On.org which are two of them.
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