Chiefs Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? - Page 4

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:00 AM

The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

fourth in the NFL in points allowed per game (15.1),
first in run defense (74.3 yards per game)
tied for the league lead with 57 sacks.
sixth in takeaways with 36
scored eight defensive touchdowns.

Well, first off, do the takeaways and defensive touchdowns count? Seems in this thread, for the Chiefs they don't and are just luck

But they were def a good defense. Lets look at the Chiefs in 14,15, 16 to compare though. This may take me some time.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, first off, do the takeaways and defensive touchdowns count? Seems in this thread, for the Chiefs they don't and are just luck

But they were def a good defense. Lets look at the Chiefs in 14,15, 16 to compare though. This may take me some time.

You asked top 5 by what metric and he showed you. No need to start trying to move the goalposts around. The fact is, the Rams D was top 5, the Chiefs D was nothing close.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, first off, do the takeaways and defensive touchdowns count? Seems in this thread, for the Chiefs they don't and are just luck

But they were def a good defense. Lets look at the Chiefs in 14,15, 16 to compare though. This may take me some time.

2014
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/2014/opp.htm

2015
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/2015/opp.htm

2016
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/2016/opp.htm

Eleazar · 08-02-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Actually, it kind of does. Against great teams, unless you have a great defense, it's tough to consistently get stops without turnovers.

Great teams don't cough the ball up all the time. Great teams are going to be able to stop your pass rush. You need a defense that is fundamentally good, i.e. not near the bottom of the league in every yardage stat, if you are going to beat great teams that don't turn the ball over.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

You asked top 5 by what metric and he showed you. No need to start trying to move the goalposts around. The fact is, the Rams D was top 5, the Chiefs D was nothing close.

I'm not moving any goalposts.

The Chiefs D in 2015 were a top 5 defense in points allowed per game. Top 7 in 16.

TomBarndtsTwin · 08-02-2018, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

I wouldn't be. They've already alluded to that they think it's the players fault from last year and not Suttons. Which is why they completely overhauled the defense.

If the Chiefs finish at or near the bottom of the league again like last year, I'll bet money on it that Sutton is sent packing, as there will be no more excuses for him . . . .

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleazar

Great teams don't cough the ball up all the time. Great teams are going to be able to stop your pass rush. You need a defense that is fundamentally good, i.e. not near the bottom of the league in every yardage stat, if you are going to beat great teams that don't turn the ball over.

Great defenses force turnovers though.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

I wouldn't be. They've already alluded to that they think it's the players fault from last year and not Suttons. Which is why they completely overhauled the defense.

If the Chiefs finish at or near the bottom of the league again like last year, I'll bet money on it that Sutton is sent packing, as there will be no more excuses for him . . . .

We're going to see.....

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

We're going to see.....

Yeah, I definitely agree it's a make or break year for him.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Great defenses force turnovers though.

And stop the run and stop the pass......and don't blow huge leads in 1 half of football....

Strongside · 08-02-2018, 09:51 AM

If this offense performs on the Vermeil level and we have even a halfway competent defense, we will destroy people.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 08-02-2018, 09:51 AM

I think our defense is MUCH improved this year. I'm expecting we are in the beginning of a dynasty.

I like Veach,Reid,Bienemy and when Sutton has healthy players he'll get her done.Last year Ford was hurt, Houston was 70% and covering , Hali was old , DJ was old and Peters was a non tackling cancer. Thats ALL GONE!

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

And stop the run and stop the pass......and don't blow huge leads in 1 half of football....

Yes, for sure.

The years that the Chiefs have had good defenses under Sutton, they've done the first and not the second though.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin

I think our defense is MUCH improved this year. I'm expecting we are in the beginning of a dynasty.

I like Veach,Reid,Bienemy and when Sutton has healthy players he'll get her done.Last year Ford was hurt, Houston was 70% and covering , Hali was old , DJ was old and Peters was a non tackling cancer. Thats ALL GONE!

I agree we were gimped from a roster perspective last year. I am looking back over the course of Sutton's reign here and I see a lot of the same shit every year. Playing soft on the WR's. Huge gaps over the middle. Not blitzing in 3rd & long and unfortunately, not making enough key stops when you need them.

I will go back to the first game against Denver at KC. We are up by 7 against Manning. Denver has 0 TO's and 1:47 to go with the ball on their 20. First play he hits a guy wide open over the middle for 20+ yards.

We all know how it ended. And he had a compliment of good and healthy players that game. It was Monday night, at home and you're ahead by 7. You get 1 stop. 1 stop and you win. We lost.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I agree we were gimped from a roster perspective last year. I am looking back over the course of Sutton's reign here and I see a lot of the same shit every year. Playing soft on the WR's. Huge gaps over the middle. Not blitzing in 3rd & long and unfortunately, not making enough key stops when you need them.

I will go back to the first game against Denver at KC. We are up by 7 against Manning. Denver has 0 TO's and 1:47 to go with the ball on their 20. First play he hits a guy wide open over the middle for 20+ yards.

We all know how it ended. And he had a compliment of good and healthy players that game. It was Monday night, at home and you're ahead by 7. You get 1 stop. 1 stop and you win. We lost.

Was that the Charles fumble game?

08-02-2018, 09:00 AM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2844127	Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season? One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position. Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been. The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay. The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc. If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.
Posts: 127,957

08-02-2018, 09:51 AM	#56
Strongside Mahomes or GTFO Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: KC Casino cash: $6164282	If this offense performs on the Vermeil level and we have even a halfway competent defense, we will destroy people. __________________
Posts: 13,193

08-02-2018, 09:51 AM	#57
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1750477	I think our defense is MUCH improved this year. I'm expecting we are in the beginning of a dynasty. I like Veach,Reid,Bienemy and when Sutton has healthy players he'll get her done.Last year Ford was hurt, Houston was 70% and covering , Hali was old , DJ was old and Peters was a non tackling cancer. Thats ALL GONE!
Posts: 40,325