Royals (New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository - Page 122

duncan_idaho · 08-15-2013, 08:13 AM

New thread, this time with more burst.

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

Three7s · 10-26-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

We did win the world series, after all! (On a more serious note, screw the A's).

The only playoff team that really owned us.

Pasta Little Brioni · 10-26-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

Stupid Prison Bitch.

I see his dumbassery spreads to baseball as well.

**alanm** · 10-26-2013, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

I wouldn't be opposed to it. I've never seen anyone end more innings than Butler. I hated seeing him come up with a man on first and one out. If they can get a reliable RF, 3B or 2B bat, I would be all for the trade.
Posted via Mobile Device

Atlanta is shopping Dan Uggla.

**lewdog** · 10-26-2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

I see his dumbassery spreads to baseball as well.

Holy shit, you have no ****ing idea.

Go read the recent Royals trading Butler thread. Mind Bottling.

Pasta Little Brioni · 10-26-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

Holy shit, you have no ****ing idea.

Go read the recent Royals trading Butler thread. Mind Bottling.

Oh myyyy

Archie F. Swin · 10-29-2013, 08:45 AM

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...-pitching.html

The Angels' desire for young, controllable pitching is no secret, and ESPN's Buster Olney reports that they've indicated to other teams a willingness to trade center fielder Peter Bourjos or first baseman Mark Trumbo to acquire such talent (Twitter link).

Bourjos and Trumbo both have three years of team control remaining, and each is eligible for arbitration for the first time this winter. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects that Bourjos, who turns 27 in March, will earn $1.1MM in 2014. Trumbo, set to turn 28 in January, is projected by Swartz to see his salary jump to $4.7MM.

The salary gap between the two is sizable due to the fact that arbitration rewards Trumbo's power-oriented game while overlooking Bourjos' speed- and defense-oriented game. In terms of WAR, both Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference feel that Bourjos has actually been more valuable through 354 big league games than Trumbo has through 450. Bourjos has been worth 9.0 fWAR and 8.4 rWAR to Trumbo's 6.6 fWAR and 7.6 rWAR.

Trumbo has shown more durability than Bourjos, appearing in at least 144 games in each of the past three seasons and slashing .251/.300/.473 with 95 home runs in that time. On-base percentage is unlikely to ever be one of his strong points, but his right-handed power is among the game's best, and he's been a solid defender at first base by both UZR and DRS.

Pointing out Bourjos' lack of games played isn't entirely fair, given that the majority of the time he's spent on the disabled list has come as a result of being hit by a pitch on the wrist two different times. He does have a pair of hamstring-related DL stints as well, though the hamstring issues have amounted to less time on the shelf than his wrist woes. Over the past three seasons, Bourjos is hitting .262/.321/.401 (104 OPS+). Since his promotion to the Majors, he's tied with Michael Bourn for second among center fielders in defensive value added, according to Fangraphs, trailing only Carlos Gomez for the league lead.

The free agent market offers little in the way of reliable, right-handed power at first base, with Mike Napoli representing the best option. Corey Hart belongs in that conversation too, but he was unable to take the field in 2013 after surgery on both knees. Likewise, the center field market is bleak beyond one high-priced star and another coming off an inury-riddled season. Jacoby Ellsbury may sign the second-biggest contract of the offseason, and Curtis Granderson was hit by a pair of pitches that resulted in a pair of broken bones and nearly 100 games on the DL. With little help on the free agent market, three years of Bourjos or Trumbo will be highly desirable alternatives that should net at least one solid young arm, should the Angels pull the trigger on a deal.

The Angels are also said to be willing to trade Howie Kendrick this offseason, and Erick Aybar was discussed at this year's trade deadline, so he could be on the block as well. Also on the trade front, the Blue Jays are interested in Hank Conger or Chris Iannetta. Angels GM Jerry Dipoto figures to be in for a busy offseason and will have plenty of avenues to explore in order to add the young pitching he's looking to acquire.

CaliforniaChief · 10-29-2013, 08:57 AM

Trumbo provides the kind of power this team desperately means. Bourjos fits the mold of the kind of player we might want in the outfield (great defense). But Trumbo only makes sense without Butler. I don't see him as anything more than a DH.

So the only thing that would make it possible would be something of a three way trade where KC sends Butler to SEA and an arm to ANA, ANA sends Bourjos and Trumbo to KC, and SEA sends Paxton or one of their other young stud starters to ANA.

Yeah, just some early morning BS.

duncan_idaho · 10-29-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

Trumbo provides the kind of power this team desperately means. Bourjos fits the mold of the kind of player we might want in the outfield (great defense). But Trumbo only makes sense without Butler. I don't see him as anything more than a DH.

So the only thing that would make it possible would be something of a three way trade where KC sends Butler to SEA and an arm to ANA, ANA sends Bourjos and Trumbo to KC, and SEA sends Paxton or one of their other young stud starters to ANA.

Yeah, just some early morning BS.

Trumbo would be a downgrade at DH from Butler... but can at least stand in RF (not sure it's fair to call it "playing" RF).

KC would be better off targeting a Kendrick/Trumbo package, IMO, if it is moving Butler. It would be best off just acquiring Kendrick from the Angels for a young, controlled pitcher, IMO.

I'm not sure that the following lineup is any better than what KC trotted out a year ago. In fact, I think it's a little worse:

Gordon
Bonifacio
Hosmer
Trumbo
Perez
Moustakas
Cain (RF)
Escobar
Bourjos (CF)

By targeting Kendrick rather than Bourjos, the Royals add an offensive upgrade and increase insurance at 3B if Moustakas continues to bust.

Prison Bitch · 10-29-2013, 09:24 AM

Its quite funny (but also sad) how much people love Mr GIDP in this town. I never understood the personal attachment some/most people get to players. I never connected with any so I never cared if they were traded, released, benched, whatever. So I avoid making hideous arguments like how good Butler was this past season.

Cephalic Trauma · 10-29-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

So I avoid making hideous arguments

When is this going to start?

duncan_idaho · 10-29-2013, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Its quite funny (but also sad) how much people love Mr GIDP in this town. I never understood the personal attachment some/most people get to players. I never connected with any so I never cared if they were traded, released, benched, whatever. So I avoid making hideous arguments like how good Butler was this past season.

What's sad, actually, is how unappreciated Butler is in this town.

He's not a perfect player. He's not an incredibly elite player. But he is an above-average offensive player who is one of the best hitters at his position. He's a commodity that is much more difficult to replace than most think.

Recognizing that is not attachment. It is applying logic and understanding to the player's value.

Re: Butler vs. Trumbo

Billy Butler's AVERAGE OPS over the past 5 seasons is 40 points higher than Trumbo's best individual season. Butler's OPS+ has been higher than Trumbo's best in 4 of those seasons, and even this year, Butler's OPS+ was higher than Trumbo's (Despite Butler's slide in productivity in 2013).

And if you want to talk about the difference in slug... well, Butler's average over this time period in .469... which is Trumbo's career SLG%.

Thinking Trumbo would be an overall downgrade from Butler is not a sign of attachment to Butler. It's simply a matter of looking at stats.

Nightfyre · 10-29-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

What's sad, actually, is how unappreciated Butler is in this town.

He's not a perfect player. He's not an incredibly elite player. But he is an above-average offensive player who is one of the best hitters at his position. He's a commodity that is much more difficult to replace than most think.

Recognizing that is not attachment. It is applying logic and understanding to the player's value.

Re: Butler vs. Trumbo

Billy Butler's AVERAGE OPS over the past 5 seasons is 40 points higher than Trumbo's best individual season. Butler's OPS+ has been higher than Trumbo's best in 4 of those seasons, and even this year, Butler's OPS+ was higher than Trumbo's (Despite Butler's slide in productivity in 2013).

And if you want to talk about the difference in slug... well, Butler's average over this time period in .469... which is Trumbo's career SLG%.

Thinking Trumbo would be an overall downgrade from Butler is not a sign of attachment to Butler. It's simply a matter of looking at stats.

Fatality.

duncan_idaho · 10-29-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Fatality.

Nah. I was always of the opinion that fatalities really don't count when you're in practice mode (And the opponent is just standing there, dazed).

SPchief · 10-29-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Nah. I was always of the opinion that fatalities really don't count when you're in practice mode (And the opponent is just standing there, dazed).

But But but But, he's fat

Chiefspants · 10-29-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

What's sad, actually, is how unappreciated Butler is in this town.

He's not a perfect player. He's not an incredibly elite player. But he is an above-average offensive player who is one of the best hitters at his position. He's a commodity that is much more difficult to replace than most think.

Recognizing that is not attachment. It is applying logic and understanding to the player's value.

Re: Butler vs. Trumbo

Billy Butler's AVERAGE OPS over the past 5 seasons is 40 points higher than Trumbo's best individual season. Butler's OPS+ has been higher than Trumbo's best in 4 of those seasons, and even this year, Butler's OPS+ was higher than Trumbo's (Despite Butler's slide in productivity in 2013).

And if you want to talk about the difference in slug... well, Butler's average over this time period in .469... which is Trumbo's career SLG%.

Thinking Trumbo would be an overall downgrade from Butler is not a sign of attachment to Butler. It's simply a matter of looking at stats.

Beware, PB is simply going to ignore this response and spew the exact same garbage about Butler sometime in the next week.

He's like a Chatty Kathy doll, the poor thing wasn't programmed with any responses.

08-15-2013, 08:13 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1840308	(New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository New thread, this time with more burst. Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?
Posts: 21,051

10-29-2013, 08:45 AM	#1821
Archie F. Swin This is the way Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Casino cash: $9975673	http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...-pitching.html The Angels' desire for young, controllable pitching is no secret, and ESPN's Buster Olney reports that they've indicated to other teams a willingness to trade center fielder Peter Bourjos or first baseman Mark Trumbo to acquire such talent (Twitter link). Bourjos and Trumbo both have three years of team control remaining, and each is eligible for arbitration for the first time this winter. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects that Bourjos, who turns 27 in March, will earn $1.1MM in 2014. Trumbo, set to turn 28 in January, is projected by Swartz to see his salary jump to $4.7MM. The salary gap between the two is sizable due to the fact that arbitration rewards Trumbo's power-oriented game while overlooking Bourjos' speed- and defense-oriented game. In terms of WAR, both Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference feel that Bourjos has actually been more valuable through 354 big league games than Trumbo has through 450. Bourjos has been worth 9.0 fWAR and 8.4 rWAR to Trumbo's 6.6 fWAR and 7.6 rWAR. Trumbo has shown more durability than Bourjos, appearing in at least 144 games in each of the past three seasons and slashing .251/.300/.473 with 95 home runs in that time. On-base percentage is unlikely to ever be one of his strong points, but his right-handed power is among the game's best, and he's been a solid defender at first base by both UZR and DRS. Pointing out Bourjos' lack of games played isn't entirely fair, given that the majority of the time he's spent on the disabled list has come as a result of being hit by a pitch on the wrist two different times. He does have a pair of hamstring-related DL stints as well, though the hamstring issues have amounted to less time on the shelf than his wrist woes. Over the past three seasons, Bourjos is hitting .262/.321/.401 (104 OPS+). Since his promotion to the Majors, he's tied with Michael Bourn for second among center fielders in defensive value added, according to Fangraphs, trailing only Carlos Gomez for the league lead. The free agent market offers little in the way of reliable, right-handed power at first base, with Mike Napoli representing the best option. Corey Hart belongs in that conversation too, but he was unable to take the field in 2013 after surgery on both knees. Likewise, the center field market is bleak beyond one high-priced star and another coming off an inury-riddled season. Jacoby Ellsbury may sign the second-biggest contract of the offseason, and Curtis Granderson was hit by a pair of pitches that resulted in a pair of broken bones and nearly 100 games on the DL. With little help on the free agent market, three years of Bourjos or Trumbo will be highly desirable alternatives that should net at least one solid young arm, should the Angels pull the trigger on a deal. The Angels are also said to be willing to trade Howie Kendrick this offseason, and Erick Aybar was discussed at this year's trade deadline, so he could be on the block as well. Also on the trade front, the Blue Jays are interested in Hank Conger or Chris Iannetta. Angels GM Jerry Dipoto figures to be in for a busy offseason and will have plenty of avenues to explore in order to add the young pitching he's looking to acquire. __________________ "No Two People Will Do It The Same, You got It Down...When You Appear to Be In Pain!"
Posts: 11,800

10-29-2013, 08:57 AM	#1822
CaliforniaChief #RIPAce Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal Casino cash: $12422899	Trumbo provides the kind of power this team desperately means. Bourjos fits the mold of the kind of player we might want in the outfield (great defense). But Trumbo only makes sense without Butler. I don't see him as anything more than a DH. So the only thing that would make it possible would be something of a three way trade where KC sends Butler to SEA and an arm to ANA, ANA sends Bourjos and Trumbo to KC, and SEA sends Paxton or one of their other young stud starters to ANA. Yeah, just some early morning BS.
Posts: 17,319

10-29-2013, 09:24 AM	#1824
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Its quite funny (but also sad) how much people love Mr GIDP in this town. I never understood the personal attachment some/most people get to players. I never connected with any so I never cared if they were traded, released, benched, whatever. So I avoid making hideous arguments like how good Butler was this past season.
Posts: 87,025