Kiper Mock 3.0

[planetdoc]

1 Houston Texans- Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo
2 St. Louis Rams- Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn
3 Jacksonville Jaguars- Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina
4 Cleveland Browns- Blake Bortles, QB, UCF
5 Oakland Raiders- Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Louisville
6 Atlanta Falcons- Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M
7 Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson
8 Minnesota Vikings- Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M
9 Buffalo Bills- Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan
10 Detroit Lions- Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M
11 Tennessee Titans- Anthony Barr, OLB, UCLA
12 New York Giants -Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina
13 St. Louis Rams- Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama
14 Chicago Bears- Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh
15 Pittsburgh Steelers- Justin Gilbert, CB, Oklahoma St.
16 Dallas Cowboys- Timmy Jernigan, DT, Florida St.
17 Baltimore Ravens- Brandin Cooks, WR, Oregon St.
18 New York Jets- Odell Beckham, WR, LSU
19 Miami Dolphins- Zack Martin, OT, Notre Dame
20 Arizona Cardinals- Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan St.
21 Green Bay Packers- C.J. Mosley, LB, Alabama
22 Philadelphia Eagles- Calvin Pryor, S, Louisville

23 Kansas City Chiefs- Marqise Lee, WR, USC
Analysis: The Chiefs are going to be a good defense again in 2014 if they stay healthy, but there's still uncertainty on the offensive side of the ball, and while you can question the ceiling of Alex Smith at this point in his career, the Chiefs feel they can win with him and also won't be finding a better solution at this stage in the draft. But they can find Smith some help, and that's Lee, who brings a lot of refinement as a route runner and the ability to turn a short catch into a big play. And if he goes this low, the chip on his shoulder could also help.

24 Cincinnati Bengals- Ryan Shazier, LB, Ohio St.
25 San Diego Chargers- Bradley Roby, CB, Ohio St.
26 Cleveland Browns- Kelvin Benjamin, WR, Florida St.
27 New Orleans Saints- Dee Ford, OLB, Auburn
28 Carolina Panthers- Cyrus Kouandjio, OT, Alabama
29 New England Patriots- Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota
30 San Francisco 49ers- Kyle Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech
31 Denver Broncos- Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin
32 Seattle Seahawks- Stephon Tuitt, DE, Notre Dame

[planetdoc]

I would want Kareem Martin over Anthony Barr

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

I would want Kareem Martin over Anthony Barr

Yes, let's pass on one of the top 3 3-4 OLB prospects for a 4-3 DE rated as a 2nd to 3rd round talent.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Yes, let's pass on one of the top 3 3-4 OLB prospects for a 4-3 DE rated as a 2nd to 3rd round talent.

interesting you have no problem drafting barr when he is as raw as Hageman.

Originally Posted by Barr nfl draft profile

Switched from OLB in 2012, after spending first two seasons at running back. 2013

Hageman switched from playing TE

Originally Posted by Barr nfl draft profile

Developing instincts -- late to locate the ball and too easily fooled by play-action and misdirection. Motor runs hot and cold -- does not always apply himself. Can be locked down too easily when engaged -- unrefined hand use. Lacks variety of pass-rush moves and relies too much on natural speed. Average eyes, anticipation and awareness in coverage — marginal feel. Average base strength -- moved off the ball too easily by tight ends (plays tall). Needs more time in the weight room -- 15 bench-press reps were tied for the fewest among linebackers at the combine.

As for Kareem Martin, he is as athletic as Barr with better measurables.

Originally Posted by Kareem Martin nfl draft profile

Possesses very intriguing dimensions for a rush OLB role in a traditional, two-gapping, 3-4 alignment and showed he is athletic enough to handle it at his pro day.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

interesting you have no problem drafting barr when he is as raw as Hageman.



Hageman switched from playing TE



As for Kareem Martin, he is as athletic as Barr with better measurables.

I have no problem with Barr because he was actually one of the most productive pass rushers in a tougher conference in college. Barr is also 22 years old whereas Hageman is going to be 24 years old as a rookie. Nice try though.

Kareem Martin is a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 OLB. He also had nowhere near the same level of production in college as Barr did.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

I have no problem with Barr because he was actually one of the most productive pass rushers in a tougher conference in college.

tougher conference than whom, and judging by how? Barr played in the Pac-12; Martin ACC ; Hageman Big-10

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Barr is also 22 years old whereas Hageman is going to be 24 years old as a rookie. Nice try though.

you keep bring up age. why does it matter? rookie contracts are 4 yrs with a 5th yr option. That would put Barr at most at 27yrs old and Hageman at most at 29yrs old.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Kareem Martin is a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 OLB.

citation needed.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

He also had nowhere near the same level of production in college as Barr did.

do you even research before posting? Time and time again you say stuff and I prove it wrong. Aren't you embarrassed? I am embarrassed for you.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Lets see:::: Berry, Johnson, Flowers,Poe, Hali and Houston. Yep I do believe half our defense were probowlers.

Coaching was our ****ing problem. We have a solid defense.

Originally Posted by Dayze

I was approaching from the perspective of the "Defense" as a whole; players, coaches, scheme etc. No doubt we have some killer parts, but the coaching killed us for sure.

I keep asking you dumbasses to tell me what exactly would you have Sutton do?

I don't give a rat's ass about Sutton, so this has no agenda.

The overall lack of talent at safety and ILB, no pass rush option at DE, lack of depth at OLB, and a vet corner who historically struggles in zone, and a rookie with only a couple of years of college experience at the position, and the overall lack of versatility limits adjustments.

So tell me, just what should he have done?

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by milkman

I keep asking you dumbasses to tell me what exactly would you have Sutton do?

I don't give a rat's ass about Sutton, so this has no agenda.

The overall lack of talent at safety and ILB, no pass rush option at DE, lack of depth at OLB, and a vet corner who historically struggles in zone, and a rookie with only a couple of years of college experience at the position, and the overall lack of versatility limits adjustments.

So tell me, just what should he have done?

Everyone is a dumbass... lol...

Anyway, what I saw was a lack of creativity in blitz schemes, and this was also a problem with Crennel. Every team in the NFL knows Hali is coming every play and Justin Houston is coming most of the time. The ILBs and safeties rarely blitz. A 3-4 wasn't designed to be this way, but the Chiefs throw the same shit at a team week after week hoping it somehow works. I'd like to see more variation where and when the blitzes come. I want to see both OLBs dropping into coverage with some regularity, not one less than half the time. I want to see both ILBs being blitzed at various times. I want to see overload blitzes, etc. The best pressure, the quickest pressure, comes up the middle. The Chiefs have to do more to disrupt quarterbacks up the middle, yet they don't. I don't give anyone a pass in the organization by saying the pieces weren't there.

As for coverage, I don't think there is much the Chiefs could have done a whole lot differently. What I think is more the problem is that teams don't have to guess where pressure is coming from versus where the coverage areas will be. They know where pressure is coming from and they know what areas will be open, and that is the problem in a nutshell. On top of that, the entire secondary aside from Berry played pretty shitty last year, that doesn't help anything.

[CoMoChief]

Mack at #1 ???

Is this tool trying to hype up his ESPN movie "Draft Day"?

If Houston doesn't draft Manziel or Clowney, someone's getting fired.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Everyone is a dumbass... lol...

Anyway, what I saw was a lack of creativity in blitz schemes, and this was also a problem with Crennel. Every team in the NFL knows Hali is coming every play and Justin Houston is coming most of the time. The ILBs and safeties rarely blitz. A 3-4 wasn't designed to be this way, but the Chiefs throw the same shit at a team week after week hoping it somehow works. I'd like to see more variation where and when the blitzes come. I want to see both OLBs dropping into coverage with some regularity, not one less than half the time. I want to see both ILBs being blitzed at various times. I want to see overload blitzes, etc. The best pressure, the quickest pressure, comes up the middle. The Chiefs have to do more to disrupt quarterbacks up the middle, yet they don't. I don't give anyone a pass in the organization by saying the pieces weren't there.

As for coverage, I don't think there is much the Chiefs could have done a whole lot differently. What I think is more the problem is that teams don't have to guess where pressure is coming from versus where the coverage areas will be. They know where pressure is coming from and they know what areas will be open, and that is the problem in a nutshell. On top of that, the entire secondary aside from Berry played pretty shitty last year, that doesn't help anything.

Creativity requires talent and versatility from the positions that you are asking Sutton to be more creative with.

Hali is a liability in coverage, which is why you send him after the QB more than half the time.

Jordan was a liability in coverage, which is why he was sitting on the sidelines and Berry was in the box as a hybrid LB in subpackages on more than half the snaps.

And blitzing is far more effective when at least one of your DEs can create pressure.

Even when he did blitz DJ or Berry, the lack of any pressure from the DL made it far to easy for the blitz to be picled up.

I don't know how effective Sutton is, or can be, as a DC.
And I won't know until we fix those positions.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by milkman

I keep asking you dumbasses to tell me what exactly would you have Sutton do?

I don't give a rat's ass about Sutton, so this has no agenda.

The overall lack of talent at safety and ILB, no pass rush option at DE, lack of depth at OLB, and a vet corner who historically struggles in zone, and a rookie with only a couple of years of college experience at the position, and the overall lack of versatility limits adjustments.

So tell me, just what should he have done?

Rotate the DL and front 7 a little more to get some fresh legs on the field.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by milkman

Creativity requires talent and versatility from the positions that you are asking Sutton to be more creative with.

Hali is a liability in coverage, which is why you send him after the QB more than half the time. - Which is why I fully support his replacement being drafted this year and him being let go in the 2015 offseason -

Jordan was a liability in coverage, which is why he was sitting on the sidelines and Berry was in the box as a hybrid LB in subpackages on more than half the snaps. - Two fold deal here. One, the nature of the single-high safety scheme places the SS in a position to be in coverage primarily but from an "in the box" placement. In the same breath, you are 100% correct that Jordan was a liability in coverage, which makes me wonder why the hell the Chiefs brought in Joe Mays who is equally inept. Nico Johnson is also a liability there. Drafting LBs that cannot cover forces your team to come out of a base look into the nickel more often. With the part above about Hali, KC would be as well off playing a 4-3 -

And blitzing is far more effective when at least one of your DEs can create pressure.

Even when he did blitz DJ or Berry, the lack of any pressure from the DL made it far to easy for the blitz to be picled up. - I'm going to couple these last two into a single response and say that pressure in the sense that the DE can at least force double-teams is a huge priority in a 3-4. KC has routinely trotted out DE's that cannot even win 1-on-1 battles, which is absolutely limiting. This was a huge reason I was a proponent of drafting Star Lotulelei a year ago and moving Poe to DE. I think Poe is now entrenched as a disruptive NT, so the Chiefs have to figure some way to find DE's that can force double-teams rather than being merely run stoppers in 1-on-1. Again, if the DE's can't do it, then moving to a 4-3 may be better for the team -

I don't know how effective Sutton is, or can be, as a DC.
And I won't know until we fix those positions. - I don't disagree with you, all I cite is that I saw a lack of "try" from Sutton. Perhaps he was scared to try things given the limitations of the above players. Nobody gets bonus points from me for being scared. - .

Added my replies in red.

[Halfcan]

10 Detroit Lions- Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M

Wow-Lions would be pretty much unstoppable in the passing game. Wish the Chiefs could move up and take this guy-he is going to be a Touch Down machine.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Added my replies in red.

I don't call recognition of limitations, and working within those limitations, fear, but that's just me.

I thought Sutton opened up with an inspired game plan against the Colts, with Abdullah in the box and Berry being allowed to roam more.

But once the Colts adjusted, those limitations bit us in the ass.

Only 3 players on this defense have any real versatility.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't call recognition of limitations, and working within those limitations, fear, but that's just me.

I thought Sutton opened up with an inspired game plan against the Colts, with Abdullah in the box and Berry being allowed to roam more.

But once the Colts adjusted, those limitations bit us in the ass.

Only 3 players on this defense have any real versatility.

Question for you milk...

You know that Hali and Jordan can't cover shit if it was stuck to them... so....

If I need to make a play on defense, you'd expect that I'll rush Hali, likely rush Houston, and keep Jordan at home. That seems logical and well within the scope of limitations.

What do you think would happen if I rushed Derrick Johnson and Eric Berry while I dropped Hali, Houston, and Jordan into coverage?

My bets are, the line is completely unsuspecting and it will result in heavy QB pressure immediately, if not a sack. Curious your take. Now I don't expect this 2, 3, or 10 times a game and maybe not every game.

What if I rushed Jordan and Houston, but rotated Berry to cover LOLB flat, DJ to MLB, and Hali dropped to cover ROLB flat?

See what I'm getting at. You don't have to put non-coverage players into coverage situations often, but if you mix them up at the right times in the right mix, you can create some things. You can at least try some things. I didn't see enough of that from Sutton. I think he was bound by the limitations rather than trying to overcome the limitations by selectively pushing beyond those limitations.

But this all feeds into one of my draft rules: Don't draft LBs that can't cover.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Question for you milk...

You know that Hali and Jordan can't cover shit if it was stuck to them... so....

If I need to make a play on defense, you'd expect that I'll rush Hali, likely rush Houston, and keep Jordan at home. That seems logical and well within the scope of limitations.

What do you think would happen if I rushed Derrick Johnson and Eric Berry while I dropped Hali, Houston, and Jordan into coverage?

My bets are, the line is completely unsuspecting and it will result in heavy QB pressure immediately, if not a sack. Curious your take. Now I don't expect this 2, 3, or 10 times a game and maybe not every game.

What if I rushed Jordan and Houston, but rotated Berry to cover LOLB flat, DJ to MLB, and Hali dropped to cover ROLB flat?

See what I'm getting at. You don't have to put non-coverage players into coverage situations often, but if you mix them up at the right times in the right mix, you can create some things. You can at least try some things. I didn't see enough of that from Sutton. I think he was bound by the limitations rather than trying to overcome the limitations by selectively pushing beyond those limitations.

But this all feeds into one of my draft rules: Don't draft LBs that can't cover.

He did that in season, and it worked well a couple times, but got burned after those first couple times..