It's time for large # of troops to GTFO of Afghanistan.

[BigRedChief]

It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Edited:

I'm convinced that this is the right decision for these reasons.

• We can't nation build in Afghanistan. We shouldn't be using our resources and sacrificing our troops to help them. Thats not why we are there. $300 billion spent so far. 900 brave Americans dead. Entering it's 9th year. Just when will it be enough?
• The argument that the Taliban and Al-Quaeda will just come back may be true but there are several problems with that. Al-Quaeda can be anywhere in the world. So we keep them out of Afghanistan, they show up in Pakistan, Somalia, where ever. I read there is only 100 Al-Quaeda operatives in Afghanistan. There are probably more than that in the USA. If we keep them out of Afghanistan. they will just go some other place. We need a 21st century approach. We won't be able to defeat Al-Quaeda with conventional weapons and strategy. We can always go back in with surgical strikes to take out prime targets and more large scale attacks to prevent Al-Quaeda from establishing bases again. We can't let 100,000 Americans become easy to reach targets for Al-Quaeda.
• The government is corrupt beyond repair. For those who want to nation build, how can you with a totally corrupt government that the people don't trust? Nation building won't work no matter how many troops or how much money you throw at the problem with a corrupt government distrusted by the people.
• Afghanistan has no resources. What exactly are they going to make money at, build their country with? It would be a transfer of wealth from us to them.
• The population outside of Kabul is run by drug overlords. The majority of the population works in the poppy fields because its the only way they can feed their family. How are we going to change that? Provide jobs for those people to feed their families? A lot of those poppy field profits are going right to the Taliban. Just how are you going to end this cycle without a major infusion of American money. Again, a transfer of wealth.

[***SPRAYER]

Cindy Sheehan is the only moonbat left with any integrity.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Do you think the President should manage his war according to polls?

of couse not. my orginal point is that we can't "win" this war, even if we put 100K americans in harms way on the ground. I'm not in favor of just leaving the area or the country totally. We just need a new strategy to keep Al-Quaeda from having a safe haven and going after and killing Al-Quaeda. Which is the only "win" we should concern ourselfs with.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

of couse not. my orginal point is that we can't "win" this war, even if we put 100K americans in harms way on the ground. I'm not in favor of just leaving the area or the country totally. We just need a new strategy to keep Al-Quaeda from having a safe haven and going after and killing Al-Quaeda. Which is the only "win" we should concern ourselfs with.

Get rid of the military bases on their land but keep our ships nearby. Threaten them with our return ( such as the original Afghan strike) should another attack be planned or occur. This removes a major complaint of the people there, prevents needless bombing of civilians while incentiving ostracizing and going after AQ. Use this carrot along with Marques & Reprisals, more human intel and special forces. Conventional warfare is too in the people's face, makes them suffer whether they have anything to do with 9/11 and helps to win the peace ( because they don't like permanent military installations on their land.)

Absolutely, NO MORE going after Israel's terrorists supporters like Iran directly with our military. We're not in this to secure Israel directly ( as Iraq was) with our own soldiers dying—only indirectly. This just incentives AQ and serves to recruit more to their cause. You have to not only win the war but win the peace. Something Israel herself has failed to do because she only won the conventional war, which led to the rise in terrorism for her instead as a replacement.

Lastly, America needs to be a more honest broker in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. We must pressure Israel to end the settlements for one. We must distance the extremists on both sides of the conflict ( that means the Likudnicks, Israel's version of our NeoCons). This means the Evangelical Dispensationalist wing in America (RR) that is aligned with the NeoCons because they see Israel, the state, as the messiah , desire Armageddon to convert and perfect Jews. ( most of whom are atheist or agnostic today) and have historical hatred of anything Muslim. In short, they can't be objective.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Get rid of the military bases on their land but keep our ships nearby. Threaten them with our return ( such as the original Afghan strike) should another attack be planned or occur. This removes a major complaint of the people there, prevents needless bombing of civilians while incentiving ostracizing and going after AQ. Use this carrot along with Marques & Reprisals, more human intel and special forces. Conventional warfare is too in the people's face, makes them suffer whether they have anything to do with 9/11 and helps to win the peace ( because they don't like permanent military installations on their land.)

Absolutely, NO MORE going after Israel's terrorists supporters like Iran directly with our military. We're not in this to secure Israel directly ( as Iraq was) with our own soldiers dying—only indirectly. This just incentives AQ and serves to recruit more to their cause. You have to not only win the war but win the peace. Something Israel herself has failed to do because she only won the conventional war, which led to the rise in terrorism for her instead as a replacement.

Lastly, America needs to be a more honest broker in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. We must pressure Israel to end the settlements for one. We must distance the extremists on both sides of the conflict ( that means the Likudnicks, Israel's version of our NeoCons). This means the Evangelical Dispensationalist wing in America (RR) that is aligned with the NeoCons because they see Israel, the state, as the messiah , desire Armageddon to convert and perfect Jews. ( most of whom are atheist or agnostic today) and have historical hatred of anything Muslim. In short, they can't be objective.

Israel doesn't need our protection. It just needs access to our arms and the money to buy them. Guarnatee you that Israel has suitcase nukes in a lot of major Arab cities and probaly some western ones to threaten with in case they are overun someday. And if they are going down as a state and can gaurantee you there will be mushroom clouds in every Arab state.

Was it the muslim world that sprung forth 9/11 and killed americans or Israel. And you are delussional if you thnk Arabs will drop their anti-Americanism if we just drop support for Israel.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Israel doesn't need our protection. It just needs access to our arms and the money to buy them. Guarnatee you that Israel has suitcase nukes in a lot of major Arab cities and probaly some western ones to threaten with in case they are overun someday. And if they are going down as a state and can gaurantee you there will be mushroom clouds in every Arab state.

Was it the muslim world that sprung forth 9/11 and killed americans or Israel. And you are delussional if you thnk Arabs will drop their anti-Americanism if we just drop support for Israel.

I know they have arms from us and nukes. That's why I said that. Still, it was Israeli interests that beat the war drums for the Iraq invasion and occupation; continuing in the same mode for Iran.
Another reason why the GOP is not an alternative to the Dems.

I never said Arabs would completely drop all of their anti-Americanism.*
I'm saying that the cause of 9/11 or bringing terror home to American soil is date coincident to leaving troops on Saudi soil post PGWI as well as an expansion of permanent military bases throughout the 1990's in other parts of the ME. There is good evidence for this and I've posted threads on it by scholars on the ME.

* Polls show ME people admire our institutions and do not dislike our people. These polls drop dramatically when it comes to our FP in the ME. This needs reform.

[BigRedChief]

How Americans feel about sending more troops to Afghanistan
	All	Democrats	Independents	Republicans
Favor sending more troops	41%	30%	38%	63%
Keep same number	7%	9%	6%	6%
Begin to withdraw	41%	53%	43%	24%
Source: USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of 1,053 adults Tuesday-Wednesday. Margin of error: +/- 7 percentage points for each subsample.

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

again, we use the drones and special forces. Thats a big difference. With the drones we can watch from the sky and strike at any moment. We will keep them from moving freely. And especially start up dafe havens for Al-Quaeda.

You should fix this before Policeman Zackattacker comes along and degrades you.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by ROYC75

You should fix this before Policeman Zackattacker comes along and degrades you.

Poor Roy, bouncing around the whole board because of me.

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

Poor Roy, bouncing around the whole board because of me.

Nice pic of yourself, did you set your timer to take that one?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by ROYC75

Nice pic of yourself, did you set your timer to take that one?

Boom.

[ROYC75]

The SV didn't fare well, what makes us think we can unless we throw everything at them. That's something we just can't do. Just sit back and police it thru the sky, fire at will.

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

Boom.

Must of been your swing crashing...... did it hurt ?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by ROYC75

Must of been your swing crashing...... did it hurt ?

My swing?

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

My swing?

You'll really not on your game today. This is fun. The swing you were siting in with all the strings attached when the timer went off for your snapshot pic.

Sucks to be you today, doesn't it.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by ROYC75

You'll really not on your game today. This is fun. The swing you were siting in with all the strings attached when the timer went off for your snapshot pic.

Sucks to be you today, doesn't it.

It is a puppet. A puppet has marionette strings. Why would a puppet be on a swing.