*.* 2014 General Fitness Thread *.*

[penguinz]

Welcome to 2014! Now get your ass in top physical condition!

No one else started it so here it is!

**From the 2013 Thread**

If you want to get back into lifting, or need a new lifting routine, START HERE:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...inner_Programs

If you have questions about the SS programs, look here:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ

Keep in mind that you're a novice lifter for a longer period of time than you think you are. Novice lifting can last anywhere from a few months to a year or two, depending on how hard you hit the weights and where you started.

Once you've reached the point where you don't make regular progress on the SS program, you are ready to move on to the intermediate stage, which can last you for a good number of years. Find it HERE:

http://madcow.hostzi.com/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

If you're a very advanced lifter (many, many years of CONSISTENT weight training), then there are lot of programs out there, and which one you pick is simply a matter of preference. If you're really that advanced, you should know what works for you and what doesn't by this point.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by luv

I'm interested in your protein intake. Doesn't plant source protein affect your body a bit differently? I'm asking because I don't know. My trainer has me focusing on lean animal source protein, so I'm curious how different it would be if I didn't heat animals. Do you do protein powder? If so, would whey protein be considered bad as a vegan?

From a strict vegan perspective, yes. It's not milk, but a milk (whey) based protein.

Vegetable/plant based protein is just as effective as animal proteins, especially when multiple sources are utilized, but it's substantially more expensive to manufacture.

Typically, the vegan protein supplements are twice as expensive as the best of the whey isolate protein supplements calculated on a per pound basis.

On a personal level, much in the same manner as the food itself, the plant based protein supplements tend to be more easily digestible, integrate into the body faster and give me a cleaner feel after consumption.

Animal protein is considered to be a more “complete” protein. What do I mean by that? Protein from things such as chicken or beef contain all the necessary amino acids our body needs to make new protein since animal proteins are most similar to the ones found in our body. Proteins from plant sources such as soy or vegetables generally do not contain all of the essential amino acids that our body needs.

There is a flip side, though. As many of us know, animal protein can be extremely high in cholesterol and fat, particularly saturated fat, which can a serious risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Protein from plants and other vegetables tend to be much lower in saturated fat and cholesterol. Case in point? An 8-ounce ribeye steak contains 64 grams of protein, but also contains a whopping 34 grams of fat, 13 of them saturated. And let’s not forget the cholesterol — 260 milligrams, more than 80 percent of the daily recommended value. Yikes. A cup of cooked lentils packs 18 grams of protein but less than 1 gram of fat.

6. Hemp: A near-complete plant-based protein, hemp offers the inflammation-fighting power of omega-6 essential fatty acids and is high in fiber, it’s a great choice for those following a vegan diet. Some studies have also suggested hemp protein may be more helpful in weight loss, thanks to its high fiber content, than other protein powders, says Mangieri.

The bottom line? “Dairy-based proteins like whey and casein are great choices for their muscle-building benefits as well as their bioavailable zinc and iron, if you’re not a vegan or suffer from dairy allergies,” Skolnik says. However, there’s a strong case to be made for integrating plant-based proteins into your diet as well, even if you’re not vegan or allergic. “These proteins are easily digestible and have been proven to fight inflammation and reduce muscle soreness more effectively than dairy-based proteins, which makes them a good choice for any athlete or active person,” says Brazier.

Since one plant-based powder alone won’t offer a complete protein, look for a product that combines several to create a full amino acid profile, such as PlantFusion or Brazier’s Vega One line, which provides complete proteins, omega-3s, probiotics, greens, antioxidants, and more in each serving.

http://organicbodybuilding.wordpress...whey-vs-vegan/

[Simply Red]

Vega-One bro - look it up.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by luv

There's a difference between density vs. mass, isn't there? Someone with more density may be smaller, but lift just as much?

Yes, this is possible. You can't tell how big someone is just by looking. However, you cannot get stronger without getting bigger -- it's just that the proportion by which one gets bigger varies from person to person.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Silock

That's fine, and it's good to be focused on form, too. I, myself, don't count a rep unless I do it with a full ROM. It's not going to be as beneficial if I'm cheating on the lift.

However, even if all you're concerned about is ROM and how it "feels," your body is going to adapt and adapt quite quickly. Likewise, your body DE-adapts quite quickly, as well. It's why you should never judge the effectiveness of a workout by how sore/pumped it makes you. Soreness is just your body adjusting to the way it's being worked out; it's not an indication that you've done anything BETTER to build muscle, or what you did is more effective than what you did previously (assuming you have worked out regularly sometime in the past two weeks-month).

One thing might make you sore one workout, then less sore the next. So, you switch it up and the new thing makes you sore. Well, while the new thing is making you sore, your body is not keeping up the adaptations to the first exercise, so, as the second one makes you less sore, and you switch back to the first, you're sore again.

This isn't an indication that your training is EFFECTIVE at anything but being a workout. It's not necessarily sending better muscle building signals to the body.

Also, I would take any training method used by a guy on steroids very lightly unless you are also on steroids. It's just soooo different, in many ways, that it's not really applicable to a natural person. They can get away with doing super high sets and recovering quickly. It's the nature of the drug. That's not to say that they don't work their asses off -- they absolutely do. But the methods that are effective for them aren't effective for the natural lifter.

The problem is, you are going to reach a point where those gains are going to be capped. There is a limit to an individuals strength. Where do you go when you've hit this cap in terms of your cataloging of the individual exercises for determining gym/body performance?

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

There is a flip side, though. As many of us know, animal protein can be extremely high in cholesterol and fat, particularly saturated fat, which can a serious risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Protein from plants and other vegetables tend to be much lower in saturated fat and cholesterol. Case in point? An 8-ounce ribeye steak contains 64 grams of protein, but also contains a whopping 34 grams of fat, 13 of them saturated. And let’s not forget the cholesterol — 260 milligrams, more than 80 percent of the daily recommended value. Yikes. A cup of cooked lentils packs 18 grams of protein but less than 1 gram of fat.

1) Saturated fat is not necessarily bad. Everything in moderation. Ditto for cholesterol.

2) Not all animal protein is fat-laden. Chicken, turkey, fish, shrimp -- these things can be almost entirely lean.

I'll agree with them, though, that the focus on complete proteins is a bit overblown. While it's good to have a complete protein source, it's not absolutely necessary. The body can manufacture a lot of proteins on its own. There are a select few that need to come from outside sources.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

The problem is, you are going to reach a point where those gains are going to be capped. There is a limit to an individuals strength. Where do you go when you've hit this cap in terms of your cataloging of the individual exercises for determining gym/body performance?

There's a "soft" cap and a "hard" cap. I would venture that most people NEVER reach their "hard" cap.

When you are past the newb gains, you've reached one cap. Beyond this point, gains are hard-fought. While you may gain 10 lbs of muscle in the first year, you'll be lucky to add 1 lbs of pure muscle the next year, and year after that. This second point is the "soft" cap.

The "hard" cap is where you just cannot gain any more muscle naturally. At all. I would venture that most people, most lifters, NEVER reach this point. You can gain strength almost your entire life. Old man strength is a real thing. Lots of lifters are their strongest in their 40s and 50s.

So, what do you do when you hit a wall? This is why it is SO important to have a good, proven training regimen. You may have to increase your frequency or decrease it. It all depends on the individual. For instance, I don't do well training one body part per week. I need more frequency than that. Some people do just fine with 1 body part per week.

You hit a wall when you have missed your prescribed weights three workouts in a row. Then, you drop the weight and work your way back up. If you dropped the weight enough, and are using the proper progression scheme, you'll be able to build your "momentum" enough and break through the wall. This can take months. Lots of lifters would be happy to add 5-10 lbs per YEAR on their bench.

That's why after you've passed that initial period, it's imperative to have a proper program, or you will just be spinning your wheels. You won't gain strength or muscle. You'll just keep what you have, hopefully.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Simply Red

Vega-One bro - look it up.

I'm currently using the Vega Sport Performance protein supplement.

On my to try list:

Sun Warrior Warrior Blend
Genuine Health Vegan Proteins +

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Silock

There's a "soft" cap and a "hard" cap. I would venture that most people NEVER reach their "hard" cap.

When you are past the newb gains, you've reached one cap. Beyond this point, gains are hard-fought. While you may gain 10 lbs of muscle in the first year, you'll be lucky to add 1 lbs of pure muscle the next year, and year after that. This second point is the "soft" cap.

The "hard" cap is where you just cannot gain any more muscle naturally. At all. I would venture that most people, most lifters, NEVER reach this point. You can gain strength almost your entire life. Old man strength is a real thing. Lots of lifters are their strongest in their 40s and 50s.

So, what do you do when you hit a wall? This is why it is SO important to have a good, proven training regimen. You may have to increase your frequency or decrease it. It all depends on the individual. For instance, I don't do well training one body part per week. I need more frequency than that. Some people do just fine with 1 body part per week.

You hit a wall when you have missed your prescribed weights three workouts in a row. Then, you drop the weight and work your way back up. If you dropped the weight enough, and are using the proper progression scheme, you'll be able to build your "momentum" enough and break through the wall. This can take months. Lots of lifters would be happy to add 5-10 lbs per YEAR on their bench.

That's why after you've passed that initial period, it's imperative to have a proper program, or you will just be spinning your wheels. You won't gain strength or muscle. You'll just keep what you have, hopefully.

You will hit a cap based on your body mass, muscle density, etc. no matter how hard to train for it, no matter how proper your program is. There is a ceiling.

And it's simply a biological/physiological function that human males hit their strength peaks approximately in their mid-30's. However, a person will degrade from that point. You don't get stronger as you get progressively older once you hit that point.

The guy I know who does natural competitions doesn't keep track of his weights with his major movements anymore because the gains are relatively non-existent at the point where he is at. And we're talking about a guy who measures out his lunch on a digital scale. He is uber-meticulous about everything.

Trying to track an improvement of five pounds over an entire year on any lift, let alone the big power lifts is damn near an exercise in futility. That's pretty much clinical obsessive-compulsive disorder or Aspergers syndrome.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I'm currently using the Vega Sport Performance protein supplement.

On my to try list:

Sun Warrior Warrior Blend
Genuine Health Vegan Proteins +

Yes, I've tried that one - in the envelope single serving - pretty good product overall. I don't buy it regularly - but I may mix it in eventually..

[Simply Red]

side note - I'm enjoying the ON Gold standard, ty guys for suggesting that one - it's quite the value, w/o sacrificing the brand-name.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Simply Red

side note - I'm enjoying the ON Gold standard, ty guys for suggesting that one - it's quite the value, w/o sacrificing the brand-name.

You should try the strawberry flavor if you can.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

You will hit a cap based on your body mass, muscle density, etc. no matter how hard to train for it, no matter how proper your program is. There is a ceiling.

Eventually, yes. Most people will NEVER reach this point.

And it's simply a biological/physiological function that human males hit their strength peaks approximately in their mid-30's. However, a person will degrade from that point. You don't get stronger as you get progressively older once you hit that point.

Not necessarily. You might hit a muscle mass peak in your mid 30s, but you can continue training your CNS and get stronger well past this point. There are a LOT of powerlifters that hit their best numbers in their late 30s and early 40s. Some guys even into their 50s. Why? Everyone is different, and while athleticism may peak far earlier than strength and muscle mass, it doesn't mean you can't get stronger past this point. CNS adaptation is a HUGE part of lifting. Now, yes, it will eventually fall off. But you can get stronger for the vast majority of your lifetime.

The guy I know who does natural competitions doesn't keep track of his weights with his major movements anymore because the gains are relatively non-existent at the point where he is at. And we're talking about a guy who measures out his lunch on a digital scale. He is uber-meticulous about everything.

Another genetic lottery winner, it seems.

Trying to track an improvement of five pounds over an entire year on any lift, let alone the big power lifts is damn near an exercise in futility.

3 years ago, I was maxing out at 155 in the military press. I can now OHP my body weight. Futility my ass. How did I get there? Proper programming and incremental progression. That never would have been possible if I hadn't put forth some effort into planning how I was going to try and increase this lift. And how long did I spend over the past 3 years actually planning this out? Maybe 20 minutes. Long enough to download a couple of spreadsheets, enter in the required starting information, and whenever I hit a plateau, however much time it took to readjust the starting values.

Slow, steady progress. It doesn't seem like much if you're only focused on the short-term numbers, but when you're playing the long game, the turtle beats the hare every time.

That's pretty much clinical obsessive-compulsive disorder or Aspergers syndrome.

That's pretty much extreme hyperbole.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by Silock

Another genetic lottery winner, it seems.

thanks bud! been workin' hard!

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Silock

Yes, this is possible. You can't tell how big someone is just by looking. However, you cannot get stronger without getting bigger -- it's just that the proportion by which one gets bigger varies from person to person.

Originally Posted by Silock

Not necessarily. You might hit a muscle mass peak in your mid 30s, but you can continue training your CNS and get stronger well past this point. There are a LOT of powerlifters that hit their best numbers in their late 30s and early 40s. Some guys even into their 50s. Why? Everyone is different, and while athleticism may peak far earlier than strength and muscle mass, it doesn't mean you can't get stronger past this point. CNS adaptation is a HUGE part of lifting. Now, yes, it will eventually fall off. But you can get stronger for the vast majority of your lifetime.
.

I can't tell if you contradicted yourself or if I just didn't understand, but can you get stronger without getting bigger or nah?

[Silock]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I can't tell if you contradicted yourself or if I just didn't understand, but can you get stronger without getting bigger or nah?

Like everything, it's complicated. Yes, you need muscle mass to be able to lift. The more muscle mass you have, the more you will be able to lift, provided your CNS output remains stable.

Now, when you get older, because your ability to develop muscle mass begins to decline, your CNS output is much more of a factor. That doesn't mean an older lifter CANNOT build muscle. But he might not have as much mass as he did when he was younger. Due to CNS adaptations, he can still become stronger, pound for pound, and yes, he can still build muscle. He just can't build as much as when he was younger or as easily (unless he's supplementing with drugs).

EDIT for more clarification: Just like someone who is bigger than another person may not be as strong, you can be smaller in terms of muscle mass than at another point in your life, but also be stronger. It not only varies from person to person, but how you train can change the neuromuscular adaptations to lifting, as well. However, it doesn't usually happen that a person has a set amount of muscle mass and continues to work out at the same volume and frequency and simultaneously gets smaller.

For instance, if you're training constantly and consistently from the time you're in your mid 20s to your mid 40s, you're not likely to lose muscle mass. It's just that your ability to develop additional muscle mass will diminish over time. But if you have the same amount of muscle mass in your 40s as you did in your 20s, it is HIGHLY likely that you will be significantly stronger in your 40s because of the long-term adaptations to your CNS that consistent training develops. What usually happens is that someone takes a break as they get older, due to lifestyle changes or injury, loses muscle mass and then begins to train again. They don't grow muscle as quickly as they did previously, but can become stronger because they have learned how to maximize the muscle fibers they do have because of years of training. Again, that's not a certainty, but it is a possibility if you do it correctly.

It's certainly possible that someone peaks at 25 and just goes downhill from there, and they never develop any further. But that's why training programs that are proven to work are so effective. I'm just saying that it is possible to continue to progress on lifts throughout your life by training smartly. You just have to think long-term and not short-term. Daily or weekly fluctuations are irrelevant when you're looking at the long-term impact.