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Old 12-14-2017, 09:49 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Trumpís Lies vs. Obamaís There's a new King! #Winning

After we published a list of President Trumpís lies this summer, we heard a common response from his supporters. They said, in effect: Yes, but if you made a similar list for previous presidents, it would be just as bad.

Weíve set out to make that list. Here, you will find our attempt at a comprehensive catalog of the falsehoods that Barack Obama told while he was president. (We also discuss George W. Bush below, although the lack of real-time fact-checking during his presidency made a comprehensive list impossible.)

We applied the same conservative standard to Obama and Trump, counting only demonstrably and substantially false statements. The result: Trump is unlike any other modern president. He seems virtually indifferent to reality, often saying whatever helps him make the case heís trying to make.

In his first 10 months in office, he has told 103 separate untruths, many of them repeatedly. Obama told 18 over his entire eight-year tenure. Thatís an average of about two a year for Obama and about 124 a year for Trump.

Each dot represents one blatant falsehood (repeats are excluded)

Separately, we have updated our earlier list of Trump's lies, which also includes repeated falsehoods. This article counts only distinct falsehoods for both Trump and Obama.

If we had used a less strict standard, Trump would look even worse by comparison. He makes misleading statements and mild exaggerations Ė about economic statistics, his political opponents and many other subjects Ė far more often than Obama. We left out any statement that could be plausibly defended even if many people would disagree with the president's interpretation. We also left out modest quantitative errors, such as Trump's frequent imprecision with numbers.

We have used the word ďliesĒ again here, as we did in our original piece. If anything, though, the word is unfair to Obama and Bush. When they became aware that they had been saying something untrue, they stopped doing it. Obama didnít continue to claim that all Americans would be able to keep their existing health insurance under Obamacare, for example, and Bush changed the way he spoke about Iraqís weapons capability.

Trump is different. When he is caught lying, he will often try to discredit people telling the truth, be they judges, scientists, F.B.I. or C.I.A. officials, journalists or members of Congress. Trump is trying to make truth irrelevant. It is extremely damaging to democracy, and itís not an accident. Itís core to his political strategy.

As for Obama: His falsehoods tended to be attempts to make his own policies look better or to overstate a problem he was trying to solve. In a few cases, they seemed to be careless exaggerations he avoided repeating.

Over all, Obama rarely told demonstrable untruths as president. And he appears to have become more careful over time. We counted six straight-up falsehoods in his first year in office. Across his entire second four-year term, we counted the same number, six, only one of which came in his final year in office.

In all, we found 18 different bald untruths from Obama during his presidency. Trump told his 18th separate untruth in his third full week in office, and his list keeps growing.

In fact, Trump tells falsehoods about Obama and his administration more often than Obama told falsehoods about all subjects. Since his inauguration, Trump has told 10 separate untruths about Obama, including false allegations of wiretapping and false descriptions of Obamacare. We counted only two falsehoods Obama told about Bush.

(Article continues below the list.)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-is-worse.html
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:58 PM   #2
ROYC75 ROYC75 is offline
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LOL, an Anti Trump paper against all things, Trump!

This country is in the shitter and getting shittier day by day.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
LOL, an Anti Trump paper against all things, Trump!

This country is in the shitter and getting shittier day by day.
Yep, thanks to the new King!!
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:02 PM   #4
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:03 PM   #5
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Obama only told 18 lies in 8 years?

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Old 12-14-2017, 10:04 PM   #6
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
Obama only told 18 lies in 8 years?

List 'em. You won't.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:36 PM   #8
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:38 PM   #9
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AMDave starting threads furiously as he can tell the left is pissing in the wind....

This is going to be an epic few months...
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:44 PM   #10
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The big problem with this is that it's in The New York Times, meaning all of the Trump faithful will immediately dismiss it no matter how meticulously it is researched and presented. Lincoln, Gandhi, and Jesus himself could descend from the heavens quills in hand, but if their articles appeared in the Times, they'd be decried as fake news.

The other problem is that Trump followers, in general, aren't Trump followers because they've conducted reasonable, factual analysis; he appeals to emotions. There are no refs in politics; only the people can make a politician pay for a lie. President Trump plays only to his base, and his base doesn't care if he lies. They feel left out, they fear the loss of their culture to immigrants, they hate the system, they distrust the press and the East Coast ivory tower intellectual pinheads that sit around all day counting lies. Feelings, fear, hate, distrust - there's your Trump base, and they're not likely to click on a Times article to even read it, no matter how whiz-bang the interactive chart is.

Underneath it all, this chart tells the truth; rapid-fire lying is at the core of Trump's populist appeal, and it works - to get him followers, at least. It's a tremendously shitty tactic for governing a country, of course, which is why it is one of the myrrrrrrriad ways in which he's a complete disaster and an existential threat to the nation.

But it's a good read, and it shows the ratio really well. You all should check it out.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:46 PM   #11
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The NYT is lying! Trump really didn't say all those things! Can't you see they're just making it up?
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
The big problem with this is that it's in The New York Times, meaning all of the Trump faithful will immediately dismiss it no matter how meticulously it is researched and presented. Lincoln, Gandhi, and Jesus himself could descend from the heavens quills in hand, but if their articles appeared in the Times, they'd be decried as fake news.

The other problem is that Trump followers, in general, aren't Trump followers because they've conducted reasonable, factual analysis; he appeals to emotions. There are no refs in politics; only the people can make a politician pay for a lie. President Trump plays only to his base, and his base doesn't care if he lies. They feel left out, they fear the loss of their culture to immigrants, they hate the system, they distrust the press and the East Coast ivory tower intellectual pinheads that sit around all day counting lies. Feelings, fear, hate, distrust - there's your Trump base, and they're not likely to click on a Times article to even read it, no matter how whiz-bang the interactive chart is.

Underneath it all, this chart tells the truth; rapid-fire lying is at the core of Trump's populist appeal, and it works - to get him followers, at least. It's a tremendously shitty tactic for governing a country, of course, which is why it is one of the myrrrrrrriad ways in which he's a complete disaster and an existential threat to the nation.

But it's a good read, and it shows the ratio really well. You all should check it out.
Rolling back regulations...
Nominating conservative judges...
Kicking ISIS ASS...
Cutting Taxes...
Close to 3% growth...
Removing us from Paris Climate Accords ...
Illegal Immigration down by 70%...


What a ****ing disaster...
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:50 PM   #13
ROYC75 ROYC75 is offline
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I can't wait for the NYT to start taking female applicants to smear Trump more than the 18 being listed now.

I mean, we knew it was just a matter of time....
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
Rolling back regulations...
Nominating conservative judges...
Kicking ISIS ASS...
Cutting Taxes...
Close to 3% growth...
Removing us from Paris Climate Accords ...
Illegal Immigration down by 70%...


What a ****ing disaster...
Out of TPP
Out of Paris Accord ( a wealth redistribution program from Americans to the rest of the word if you actually read the worthless thing)
Weakening ACA where he could as an executive ( like the illegal funding of the exchanges by looting Fanny and Freddy Mae which Obama did)
Stopped CIA shipments to ISIS in Syria ( though I give the Russians most of the credit on ISIS being routed from Syria)
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
I can't wait for the NYT to start taking female applicants to smear Trump more than the 18 being listed now.

I mean, we knew it was just a matter of time....
I heard O'Reilly on a segment of Beck's radio show saying he has a tape of an anti-Trumper offering a woman $200k to make false claims of sexual misconduct by Trump. His lawyer has seen it. It shows three crimes being committed on it. Saw it last week but now seeing it appear on other conservative and libertarian sites. O'Reilly claims it's an industry that is doing this by paying women; that they tried it on Hannity but he fought it. O'Reilly says there's going to be a big sexual misconduct take-down of Trump by this method come January.

Looks to me like the Moore situation was a trial run. They must be salivating now. The elites taking pleasure in undoing an election. If so we're a dictatorship by an oligarchy—a ruling-class elite. Making American a Banana Republic! They're willing to risk a constitutional crisis until they get the outsider that threatens the game where they made themselves the kingmakers.
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