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Old 08-07-2014, 01:14 PM  
Bufkin Bufkin is offline
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Atheism vs Theism: A discussion between Dave and Eric

While I find myself enjoying formal debates (for nostalgic purposes), I agree with Dave that a discussion is more thought provoking and ultimately will go further on this topic.

To begin, let me identify myself when I use the term "theist". I grew up in a very strict religious household which I ran away from my senior year in high school. I identified myself as an atheist up until my sophomore year of college, when I read the Bible in its entirety following the death of my best friend. While I would argue that my belief in God and the Bible can be supported intellectually, scientifically, historically, and philosophically, I would concede that my "born-again" conversion was wholeheartedly an emotional one.

Notice I said scientifically. I love science. Even though I am a philosophy major, it was the scientific arguments for a transcendant being (or lack thereof) that got me interested in the theism vs. atheism debate. I would argue that the beauty of my specific belief (Christianity) is that our worldview is not defined by a specific theory of how life began. For the atheist, it's evolution or nothing. If Darwinian Evolution is debunked, then the atheist has precious little to lean on without invoking a designer. As a Christian, I would say that I'm agnostic on a lot of parts of macroevolution. There are a lot of questions that I have regarding the theory that seem to be unanswered. With that said, accepting the theory as true in its entirety would not affect my faith in the Bible in any way, shape, or form.

I've often said that the belief in a young Earth is about as scientifically literate as saying the distance between Texas and California is 6 inches. Francis Collins was a leader on the Human Genome Project and is on the National Institutes of Health. Alister McGrath is a molecular biophysicist who teaches at Oxford University. C.S. Lewis, is well, C.S. Lewis. What do all of these brilliant minds have in common? Not only are/were they all evengelical Christians, but all accepted the theory of evolution as true. It certainly does not contradict the Old Testament when read figuratively.

So with all of that said, now you have a basic background on my faith. What say you? Did you grow up in a household that was anti-theistic? At what age did you begin to question the belief in a higher power? And perhaps the most important question I could ask you throughout all of this, what evidence would it take for you to accept a theistic worldview?
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:51 PM   #166
Dave Lane Dave Lane is online now
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Sorry working on my other observatory tonight. I'll get to your response tomorrow with luck. Also fire away with any questions you have for me.

Incidentally I do think in an Atheism vs Theism debate the attempt would be to find inconsistencies in the other's arguments so I do think some discussion of your foundation is needed. I'm curious how your mind works and how you square a circle.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:56 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Eric Fisher View Post
Dr. William Lane Craig summarizes the evidence for Christ’s existence in four basic facts. Here is the link. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-r...ction-of-jesus. Simply looking at the first fact, Craig claims that after his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in a tomb.

Examining this fact, the four gospels in the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), and several letters from Paul (more on those later if you want to get into Paul) are non-contradictory and historical biographies of Jesus Christ. These are very early sources that were probably based on eye-witness testimonies for the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. Independent testimony to Jesus’ burial by Joseph is also found in the sources behind Matthew and Luke and the Gospel of John, not to mention the extra-biblical Gospel of Peter. Because of this, we have five (at the very least) sources for the burial of Jesus Christ. William Lane Craig also states from the same transcript that as a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea is unlikely to be a Christian invention. Because of this, many scholars (John A.T. Robinson of Cambridge University being a prominent one) concludes that the burial of Jesus is “one of the earliest and best-attested facts about Christ”. (the quote from Robinson)
So you do think eye witness testimony is an important aspect of your belief? If there were people alive today that had witnessed the miracles and would testify to you about being cured would that be better or worse as far as believability?
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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