Home Mail Chat Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > Washington DC and The Holy Land

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2004, 11:55 PM  
WoodDraw WoodDraw is offline
Veteran
 
WoodDraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Casino cash: $5159
Without a Doubt By RON SUSKIND

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/ma...gin&oref=login

A verfy long but good article about Bush, the effect of religion on his decisions, and a possible split in the Republican party. It's written with an obvious left slant but it is good none the less.

Last edited by WoodDraw; 10-17-2004 at 12:08 AM..
Posts: 3,785
WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 06:32 PM   #16
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
RING****ER
 
RINGLEADER's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Confusion, USA
Casino cash: $21168
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodDraw
What role does faith play in his presidency?

What role do his aids play in his presidency?


I think those are two important questions that I'd like to see answered. The article I posted was heavily liberal but so what? It was an opinion piece just like most of the crap posted on this board. It gives one point of view that tries to answer those two questions. I know that you seem to be insulted by anything that doesn't align with your exact viewpoint but maybe you should spend less time bitching and more time supporting your arguement. Can you answer either of those questions better than he can?

Dude, you haven't been reading my posts very closely if you reach that conclusion.

My problem with Suskind is that he admits that he manufactured third-hand quotes that he directly attributed to Bush and it didn't take 24 hours for the Kerry campaign to hold them out as evidence that Bush said something that the author of the piece now admits he has no proof was actually said. That kind of taints the conclusions of his whole article, wouldn't you say? Kind of reminds me of a certain MSM outlet running stories on TV that Bush disobeyed a direct order while in the National Guard and then finding that footage in a DNC ad less than 24 hours.

Now, as far as me supporting arguments, tell me what you need help with and I'll be happy to fill in your blanks.
Posts: 32,743
RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 06:57 PM   #17
WoodDraw WoodDraw is offline
Veteran
 
WoodDraw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Casino cash: $5159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
Now, as far as me supporting arguments, tell me what you need help with and I'll be happy to fill in your blanks.
Just show me where "he admits that he manufactured third-hand quotes".
Posts: 3,785
WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 08:00 PM   #18
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
RING****ER
 
RINGLEADER's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Confusion, USA
Casino cash: $21168
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodDraw
Just show me where "he admits that he manufactured third-hand quotes".

I saw an interview on TV with him about two hours ago. He admitted that he couldn't produce any evidence that the people he spoke to said what he claimed they said. He said that his inclusion of Bruce Bartlett for some reason validated the comments he attributed to Bush, but Bartlett has already said that he did not give an interview to Suskind and the quotes he did use about similarities between Bush and Al Qaeda and how they operate were taken wildly out of context.

Here's some other examples of Suskind's over-reaching on sources:

In January 2003, Suskind Wrote He Reportedly Overheard Karl Rove Using "Shocking" Language. (Ron Suskind, "Why Are These Men Laughing?" Esquire, 1/03; Available At http://www.ronsuskind.com/newsite/ar...es/000032.html)

In 2002, Former Bush Administration Official John DiIulio Accused Suskind Of Taking His Comments Out Of Context In An Article And Said He "Did Not Write" Nor "Recall Making" Statements Used By Suskind. (Joseph Curl, "Ex-Bush Aide Apologizes For 'Groundless' Remarks," The Washington Times, 12/3/02)

In 2002, Columnist Robert Novak Said Suskind "Took No Notes" And "Did Not Accurately Reflect" Views Of Those In Karen Hughes Profile. (Howard Kurtz, "Ron Suskind, The Confident Confidant," The Washington Post, 12/9/02)

And here's another profile on Suskind that raises some pretty strong points about how he's been wrong on earlier stories, if you're interested:

Ron Suskind's Wall Street Journal Profile Of Warren Buffett Produced A Series Of "Corrections" And "Amplifications" and "Suskind's Profile Of Boston Celtics Star Reggie Lewis "Remains A Subject Of Serious Dispute."

Suskind is registered Democrat. He's worked for a couple of Democratic senators. It doesn't surprise me that he'd make up quotes about Bush, nor does it surprise me that the Dems - just like they did with the CBS memos - would hold press conferences and cut commercials using what a sympathetic reporter said to support their position.
Posts: 32,743
RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 08:14 PM   #19
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
RING****ER
 
RINGLEADER's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Confusion, USA
Casino cash: $21168
More on Suskind here: http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/...0410172203.asp

Appears he wasn't at the event in question. Appears there was no record of the comments made at the event. Appears he got the Bush quotes from somebody's notes from the donor meeting (as the NRO piece above considers, I hope it wasn't from Bill Burkett).

Also, for those keeping score, Suskind was the author of the Paul O'Neil book that O'Neil later said wasn't exactly accurate in how it portrayed the Bush administration's planning to go to war in Iraq.
Posts: 32,743
RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.RINGLEADER is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 08:50 PM   #20
WoodDraw WoodDraw is offline
Veteran
 
WoodDraw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Casino cash: $5159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
And you're lecturing me about using biased sources...

But regardless, I thought it was an interesting article and still do. I think there are some legit questions that can be raised over his decision making process and, to go along with that, faith in his presidency. That article is obviously biased and maybe even untrue in many places but that doesn't make the overall point invalid.
Posts: 3,785
WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.WoodDraw has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2004, 01:46 PM   #21
KC Jones KC Jones is offline
Genious
 
KC Jones's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Colorado
Casino cash: $12861
Thanks for posting it. I'd be interested in hearing more about Suskind and what in this article is unsubstantiated. The article supports what many fear about Bush and don't like about this administration. However it could all be crap - or it could all be fairly accurate. I suspect we'll never really know until some day down the road when more insiders write their memoirs.

Regardless, if we take out the religious context of Bush's decisive certainty for a moment, I think it's interesting to consider that in some ways this trait of Bush is something quintessentially American. American culture has for whatever reason been anti-intellectual for a long time now. More often than not, Americans prefer a style that makes quick decisions and moves fast (Just do it). An intellectual style is one that attempts to understand the details and context in which we find ourselves, and carefully agonize over the "best" choice. This is more the style of leadership you find in Europe where they spend forever carefully debating in councils attempting to hammer away some sort of consensus policy. I tend to think that as with most things balance is important and moving to far too the fringe is probably bad.
__________________
re-sign: to sign again
resign: to withdraw from employment
Posts: 5,364
KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.KC Jones must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:11 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
Fort Worth Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.