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Old 09-07-2011, 06:03 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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MSNBC RICK PERRY POPS HIS CHERRY EXTRAVAGANZA DEBATE THREAD

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Old 09-08-2011, 10:28 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by orange View Post
How do you fix an unconstitutional Ponzi scheme? Seriously.

Does he even have a plan?
Yes his plan is to throw the election for your buddy the Barachnid.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:39 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by orange View Post
How do you fix an unconstitutional Ponzi scheme? Seriously.

Does he even have a plan?
The Obama Jobs speech thread is here
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:47 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Jaric View Post
The Obama Jobs speech thread is here
That may well be, but THIS is the thread about Rick Perry at the debate. And I asked if Rick Perry has a Social Security plan because it sounds to me like he wants to abolish it.

Two people here asserted that he doesn't really want to; that he wants to reform it. And I simply asked "how."

Is this like Ron Paul defenders? - "Oh, he doesn't really mean the kooky parts, that's just for show."
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:51 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by orange View Post
That may well be, but THIS is the thread about Rick Perry at the debate. And I asked if Rick Perry has a Social Security plan because it sounds to me like he wants to abolish it.

Two people here asserted that he doesn't really want to; that he wants to reform it. And I simply asked "how."

Is this like Ron Paul defenders? - "Oh, he doesn't really mean the kooky parts, that's just for show."
I'm not carrying water for Rick Perry, so he can lay out a plan if he has one. I'm just saying that I didn't hear him call for it to be abolished.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:02 AM   #155
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I didn't hear him say that it needs to be abolished. It certainly needs an overhaul, though.
He calls for abolishing social security in his book, a book which he has doubled down on and stood behind. The only concessions he's given so far are maybe the elderly should be grandfathered in, but he'd get rid of the federal pension and let the states offer one, or not offer one if they choose not to.

Karl Rove didn't pull his warning about Perry's unelectability out of his ass, Rick "Sharron Angle" Perry is pretty far out there and would lose handily to Obama.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:07 AM   #156
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He calls for abolishing social security in his book
He does? Where?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:11 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
He calls for abolishing social security in his book, a book which he has doubled down on and stood behind. The only concessions he's given so far are maybe the elderly should be grandfathered in, but he'd get rid of the federal pension and let the states offer one, or not offer one if they choose not to.

Karl Rove didn't pull his warning about Perry's unelectability out of his ass, Rick "Sharron Angle" Perry is pretty far out there and would lose handily to Obama.
Interesting. I can't shake the notion that Perry is this year's Huckabee.1
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:21 AM   #158
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The Constitution says that “the Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes… to provide for the… general Welfare of the United States.” But I noticed that when you quoted this section on page 116, you left “general welfare” out and put an ellipsis in its place. Progressives would say that “general welfare” includes things like Social Security or Medicare—that it gives the government the flexibility to tackle more than just the basic responsibilities laid out explicitly in our founding document. What does “general welfare” mean to you?

[PERRY:] I don’t think our founding fathers when they were putting the term “general welfare” in there were thinking about a federally operated program of pensions nor a federally operated program of health care. What they clearly said was that those were issues that the states need to address. Not the federal government. I stand very clear on that. From my perspective, the states could substantially better operate those programs if that’s what those states decided to do.

So in your view those things fall outside of general welfare. But what falls inside of it? What did the Founders mean by “general welfare”?

[PERRY:] I don’t know if I’m going to sit here and parse down to what the Founding Fathers thought general welfare meant.

But you just said what you thought they didn’t mean by general welfare. So isn’t it fair to ask what they did mean? It’s in the Constitution.

[Silence.]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...onstitutional/


Though many have wondered if there was any policy position too extreme for the modern Republican Party, Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) has found one: abolishing Social Security.

During Wednesday night’s GOP presidential debate in Simi Valley, California, Perry repeated his pronouncement that Social Security is both a “Ponzi scheme” and a “monstrous lie.” This follows up on Perry’s own book, in which he says the popular retirement program is unconstitutional and “violently toss[es] aside any respect for our founding principles.”

After the debate, one of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney’s (R) top advisers, Stuart Stevens, discussed the matter with ThinkProgress and others. Stevens minced no words, declaring that if the Texas governor were to win the nomination, Democrats would see major gains in Congress because every Republican candidate in the country “would have to run on the Perry plan to kill Social Security.” After noting that “the vast majority of Americans” did not want any major changes to Social Security – 64 percent according to a CNN poll, including 57 percent of Republicans – Stevens called the Perry platform of wanting to “abolish Social Security” a “disqualifying position.”
STEVENS: We’re talking about every House candidate that runs, every Senate candidate that runs, would have to run on the Perry plan to kill Social Security. We might as well just admit it now that Nancy Pelosi is going to become Speaker again and the Senate we’ll never get. It’s a position that, in his book he argues for and reasons out well, it’s just a position the vast majority of Americans don’t agree with. We’re talking about a president who will abolish Social Security. It’s not a question of how it’s funded, it’s a disqualifying position.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...disqualifying/
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:29 AM   #159
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So I'm thinking, "why not hear from the horse's mouth?" So I go to his campaign website, to the issues page.

Apparently his dog ate his homework. http://www.rickperry.org/issues/

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Old 09-08-2011, 11:31 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
He does? Where?
After doing a bit of quick research to refresh my memory, it looks like Perry didn't put everything he's said in the last year into his book, but it doesn't make him less unelectable.

His book strongly suggests, without just outright saying it, that he believed Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional. (if it is unconstitutional, obviously you would also think it should be abolished) During interviews for his book, back when Perry still thought he would never run for president, he wasn't shy about clarifying that those programs are unconstitutional.

Perry the presidential candidate, just a year later, is now trying to walk that stance back. He now apparently has changed his mind and no longer thinks it is unconstitutional.

Regarding abolishing social security and replacing it with state-level pension programs, that was apparently not in his book, but it was an idea he threw out there in at least one interview and at least one speech in Iowa, recently as a candidate, as one possible solution.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:36 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
After doing a bit of quick research to refresh my memory, it looks like Perry didn't put everything he's said in the last year into his book, but it doesn't make him less unelectable.

His book strongly suggests, without just outright saying it, that he believed Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional. (if it is unconstitutional, obviously you would also think it should be abolished) During interviews for his book, back when Perry still thought he would never run for president, he wasn't shy about clarifying that those programs are unconstitutional.

Perry the presidential candidate, just a year later, is now trying to walk that stance back. He now apparently has changed his mind and no longer thinks it is unconstitutional.

Regarding abolishing social security and replacing it with state-level pension programs, that was apparently not in his book, but it was an idea he threw out there in at least one interview and at least one speech in Iowa, recently as a candidate, as one possible solution.
Okay, but I think I'll wait until he presents a plan.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:49 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Okay, but I think I'll wait until he presents a plan.
Fair enough, but there is a treasure trove of hilariously unpopular words and video clips available for Obama's team. If Perry is nominated, he will angle this election in favor of the Democrats.

an·gle verb \ˈaŋ-gəl\
Origin: slang

1) The act of losing an election to an unpopular opponent or party, most often used when the losing candidate was nominated instead of a candidate who would have likely won the election. <.I can't believe the Republicans nominated O'Donnell instead of Castle; she is going to angle that election.>
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:57 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Fair enough, but there is a treasure trove of hilariously unpopular words and video clips available for Obama's team. If Perry is nominated, he will angle this election in favor of the Democrats.

an·gle verb \ˈaŋ-gəl\
Origin: slang

1) The act of losing an election to an unpopular opponent or party, most often used when the losing candidate was nominated instead of a candidate who would have likely won the election. <.I can't believe the Republicans nominated O'Donnell instead of Castle; she is going to angle that election.>
I think it's WAY too early to declare that Perry can't win versus Obama.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #164
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More behind the scenes Perry thuggery!

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Old 09-08-2011, 12:33 PM   #165
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