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Old 04-04-2014, 11:20 AM  
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Gay Agenda claims a new victim: Mozilla CEO

They just want to be accepted as equals. Nothing more, nothing less.



Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich forced to resign for supporting traditional marriage laws
BY JOEL GEHRKE | APRIL 3, 2014 AT 3:48 PM


Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich resigned under pressure after gay rights activists demanded that he step down or recant his support of traditional marriage laws.

Eich donated $1,000 to support Proposition 8, the California ballot initiative that amended the state's constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman.

"I don't want to talk about my personal beliefs because I kept them out of Mozilla all these 15 years we've been going,” Eich told The Guardian. “I don't believe they're relevant.”

That wasn't an option. "CEO Brendan Eich should make an unequivocal statement of support for marriage equality," a Credoaction petition signed by almost 75,000 people said, per The Inquirer. "If he cannot, he should resign. And if he will not, the board should fire him immediately."

When asked if his beliefs about marriage should constitute a firing offense the way racism or sexism does, Eich argued that these religious beliefs — and beliefs popular as of 2008 — should not be used as a basis for dismissal.

"I don't believe that's true, on the basis of what's permissible to support or vote on in 2008," he told CNET. "It's still permissible. Beliefs that are protected, that include political and religious speech, are generally not something that can be held against even a CEO. I understand there are people who disagree with me on this one."

On Thursday, Mozilla announced that he had resigned. "Mozilla prides itself on being held to a different standard and, this past week, we didn't live up to it," executive chairwoman Mitchell Baker wrote. "We know why people are hurt and angry, and they are right"

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2546770
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:22 PM   #871
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Crucial to what? And if they're so crucial to something you think is important, why do you seem reluctant to be specific?
Look at the three examples you picked:

1) Tax rates. The government needs money to function. No one is really arguing that, this is about who pays how much.

2) Speed limits. You can't safely travel at any random speed on every road. No one is really arguing that, this is about where to set those limits

3) Drinking age. Alcohol isn't going to be made illegal. No one is really arguing that, this is about what the appropriate age is where you are allowed to make the decision to drink.

As opposed to:

Someone thinks gay marriage is wrong. Ok, don't get gay married. Problem solved.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:07 PM   #872
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Look at the three examples you picked:

1) Tax rates. The government needs money to function. No one is really arguing that, this is about who pays how much.

2) Speed limits. You can't safely travel at any random speed on every road. No one is really arguing that, this is about where to set those limits

3) Drinking age. Alcohol isn't going to be made illegal. No one is really arguing that, this is about what the appropriate age is where you are allowed to make the decision to drink.

As opposed to:

Someone thinks gay marriage is wrong. Ok, don't get gay married. Problem solved.
I'm not sure what problem you're solving, but that doesn't solve the "problem" for someone who thinks the institution of marriage should be focused on encouraging a procreative relationship and the raising children with a male and female at the head of the household as opposed to one focused on love and companionship for the two people involved. That's just one possible example.

I don't see the meaningful difference between my 3 examples and marriage that you seem to think is there.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:21 PM   #873
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not sure what problem you're solving, but that doesn't solve the "problem" for someone who thinks the institution of marriage should be focused on encouraging a procreative relationship and the raising children with a male and female at the head of the household as opposed to one focused on love and companionship for the two people involved. That's just one possible example.

I don't see the meaningful difference between my 3 examples and marriage that you seem to think is there.
There's already a solution to that problem--mind your own business because this doesn't affect you.

Anyway, the people in your example are probably already upset by married couples who don't, can't or won't have kids. Tough shit if they have a problem with what other people do when it doesn't affect them.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:55 PM   #874
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
There's already a solution to that problem--mind your own business because this doesn't affect you.

Anyway, the people in your example are probably already upset by married couples who don't, can't or won't have kids. Tough shit if they have a problem with what other people do when it doesn't affect them.
Dumb post. It affects them just like all the other laws that shape society affect them.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:28 PM   #875
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Dumb post. It affects them just like all the other laws that shape society affect them.
No it doesn't. Doesn't affect me. How does it affect you?
Knowing your interest in picking apart semantics, I'll say meaningful affect. Inner turmoil in knowing that someone, somewhere, is doing something you don't like doesn't count.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:41 PM   #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not sure what problem you're solving, but that doesn't solve the "problem" for someone who thinks the institution of marriage should be focused on encouraging a procreative relationship and the raising children with a male and female at the head of the household as opposed to one focused on love and companionship for the two people involved. That's just one possible example.

I don't see the meaningful difference between my 3 examples and marriage that you seem to think is there.
Sure it does. Like I said, those people can refrain from getting gay married. Problem solved.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:07 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No it doesn't. Doesn't affect me. How does it affect you?
Knowing your interest in picking apart semantics, I'll say meaningful affect. Inner turmoil in knowing that someone, somewhere, is doing something you don't like doesn't count.
Let's say that the theory behind the rationale I proposed is to increase the number of kids born and to improve the environment in which they're raised. Do you not understand how that can affect us all in a meaningful way?
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:08 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Sure it does. Like I said, those people can refrain from getting gay married. Problem solved.
Being married against your will to someone of the same sex was never the problem. Therefore, that's not a solution to anything.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:41 AM   #879
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I'm sure this is just me not knowing a lot about Bible history, but how do you square something like 76 things banned in Leviticus, many of which nobody gives a crap about today, with whatever Jesus and Paul say about marriage?


I found an interesting citation, which if accurately interpreted pretty much casts doubt on the whole notion that interracial marriage was banned in the Bible:


There is mention of one interracial marriage that was heavily criticized by someone’s own brother and sister. Num 12:1 “Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite.” NIV

Cushites came from the land of Cush, or better known nowadays as Ethiopia. We have here a prime example of Biblical interracial marriage.

Was it well perceived by Moses’ brother and sister? Not really. They were criticizing him for it.

What was God’s reaction to their accusation? Num 12:9-10 “The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them. When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam — leprous, like snow.”
NIV
http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_...ge/colors.html
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:44 AM   #880
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Let's say that the theory behind the rationale I proposed is to increase the number of kids born and to improve the environment in which they're raised. Do you not understand how that can affect us all in a meaningful way?
No. And this theory or hypothetical or whatever is completely bizarre.

And why would gay marriage have any impact on the number of kids being born? However, it could improve the environment in which kids are raised, unless you consider bouncing around in the foster system better than two stable gay people.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:36 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No. And this theory or hypothetical or whatever is completely bizarre.

And why would gay marriage have any impact on the number of kids being born? However, it could improve the environment in which kids are raised, unless you consider bouncing around in the foster system better than two stable gay people.
By this point in your life, it shouldn't be a revelation that kids are more likely to be born when two people interact if one is a man and the other is a woman than if they're both the same sex.

When you subsidize something, you get more of it. When you subsidize everything, it's like not subsidizing anything at all.

It's perfectly OK with me if you think our society (and our kids) will be just fine if we expand marriage to include same sex couples (thereby degrading the special subsidy for traditional marriage). That's my belief as well. But that's a policy choice we should win through persuasion, not demonization.

Your reference to a stable gay couple versus the foster system is a red herring. Some single parents do a better job than some couples, but that doesn't mean that in the aggregate they're better or just as good or that we must avoid any policy that encourages two parent households.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:58 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
By this point in your life, it shouldn't be a revelation that kids are more likely to be born when two people interact if one is a man and the other is a woman than if they're both the same sex.

When you subsidize something, you get more of it. When you subsidize everything, it's like not subsidizing anything at all.

It's perfectly OK with me if you think our society (and our kids) will be just fine if we expand marriage to include same sex couples (thereby degrading the special subsidy for traditional marriage). That's my belief as well. But that's a policy choice we should win through persuasion, not demonization.

Your reference to a stable gay couple versus the foster system is a red herring. Some single parents do a better job than some couples, but that doesn't mean that in the aggregate they're better or just as good or that we must avoid any policy that encourages two parent households.
You still haven't explained how gay marriage would result in a decrease of children being born. I guess you're going on the assumption that if gay marriage wasn't available, that gay person would go straight, get married and have a kid.
You also haven't explained how gay marriage discourages two-parent households.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:00 AM   #883
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I found an interesting citation, which if accurately interpreted pretty much casts doubt on the whole notion that interracial marriage was banned in the Bible:

It doesn't really matter what the interpretation of it is now. What matters is the fact that it was interpreted in the past to discriminate. This is the problem with a religious text that is subject to interpretation. The popular interpretation of the time is what goes and is highly subject to influence by the doctrines of the times. Slavers claimed that since their slaves were property, the rules of the bible did not apply. They could rape them, beat them, kill them as they saw fit because they reasoned that they were property. Plus the bible gave them justification for slavery as it specifically spells out guidelines for slavery. Jesus did not correct this in the new testament but our secular moral system has corrected the injustice.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:20 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You still haven't explained how gay marriage would result in a decrease of children being born. I guess you're going on the assumption that if gay marriage wasn't available, that gay person would go straight, get married and have a kid.
You also haven't explained how gay marriage discourages two-parent households.
Gay people have been marrying and having kids forever, so yeah, I guess we can call it a pre-validated assumption.

There's also no doubt that there are people on the margin who, when they decide to enter a long term committed relationship, make a choice between a same sex relationship/marriage and a traditional marriage.

Same sex couples who don't have kids aren't two-parent households. I don't have any statistics to back this up, but my guess is that couples that don't create their own kids are less likely to have kids even after accounting for adoptions.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:35 AM   #885
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Gay people have been marrying and having kids forever, so yeah, I guess we can call it a pre-validated assumption.

There's also no doubt that there are people on the margin who, when they decide to enter a long term committed relationship, make a choice between a same sex relationship/marriage and a traditional marriage.

Same sex couples who don't have kids aren't two-parent households. I don't have any statistics to back this up, but my guess is that couples that don't create their own kids are less likely to have kids even after accounting for adoptions.
So the gay person married hetero and had kids simply because gay marriage wasn't an option?
And is this the kind of marriage with children we want to encourage? Because it sounds like a marriage that is likely to break up, leaving one of those dreaded one-parent household that we want to avoid.

You've taken up some bizarre causes, but I really can't believe you're taking up for the "It's a threat to traditional marriage!" angle, because it's one of the all-time stupid arguments on any topic.
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