Chiefs Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 - Page 4

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 12:10 PM

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/

Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017

The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early.
Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him.

Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith.

Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted.

Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009.

That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past.
Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly.

Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws.

Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning.

If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.

Frazod · 08-21-2017, 02:18 PM

I'll say this - there's only one way the Chiefs will ever win the Super Bowl - that's with a charismatic, stud gunslinger QB who garners national attention. One who not only wins games, but captures the imagination, and jersey-sale dollars, of all those soulless bandwagon scumbags who fawn over whoever ESPN tells them to. When Mahomes can line up with the likes of Manning, Brady and Roethlisburger, that's when shit will start to fall in place. That's when those crushing phantom calls and obvious non-calls that nobody cares about but us start going against the other guys. That's when we start being an elite team and stop being a shiny red doormat for the elite teams. Seriously, if Manning can win it all in ****ing shithole Indianapolis, Mahomes can do it in Kansas City.

But Alice can't. He will NEVER be that guy. And every game he starts just delays the future that much more. Get him the **** out of here now while we can get real value for him and jump start the future.

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

I'll say this - there's only one way the Chiefs will ever win the Super Bowl - that's with a charismatic, stud gunslinger QB who garners national attention. One who not only wins games, but captures the imagination, and jersey-sale dollars, of all those soulless bandwagon scumbags who fawn over whoever ESPN tells them to. When Mahomes can line up with the likes of Manning, Brady and Roethlisburger, that's when shit will start to fall in place. That's when those crushing phantom calls and obvious non-calls that nobody cares about but us start going against the other guys. That's when we start being an elite team and stop being a shiny red doormat for the elite teams. Seriously, if Manning can win it all in ****ing shithole Indianapolis, Mahomes can do it in Kansas City.

But Alice can't. He will NEVER be that guy. And every game he starts just delays the future that much more. Get him the **** out of here now while we can get real value for him and jump start the future.

Yep.

We need a star to get the breaks.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

They will have 44 pending FA's and about 4.5 million in space to work with, if they carry every bit of space they have now (they won't).

Cutting Hali and DJ alone won't be enough.

44 Pending Free Agents to begin the 2018 season? Huh?

Hali - $7 million
Bailey - $6 million
Jah Reid - $3.2 million
DJ - $7 million
West - $1.75 million

West and Reid might be cut this year, although I hope they keep West.

Hali, Reid and DJ gives them about $11 million in cap space. Bailey would add another $6 million. I hope that Bailey has a great year and lives up to his contract but the fact remains that the Chiefs have taken DE's in the second round the past two seasons.

They're not going to need much space to sign their draft picks, so cutting Hali and DJ would give them more than ample space.

The smart move is to hang onto Smith, especially if he has a great season, in order to get something in return.

**ptlyon** · 08-21-2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Same thing was happening to him in 2013 and we poined up. Surely some team will be as dumb as us.

Yeah, well that's us. Not a real NFL team.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

Yeah, well that's us. Not a real NFL team.

The Vikings gave up much more for Sam Bradford, a guy that's never won anything.

**ptlyon** · 08-21-2017, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Vikings gave up much more for Sam Bradford, a guy that's never won anything.

Yeah, well, I've got two words for you. Herschel. Walker.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Additionally, the Chiefs won't (at least at this point in time) have the cap burden of a first round pick, which also helps their cap situation.

I see that as a negative. The Chiefs will have some big holes to fill next year and will have to rely more on FA to do it because they don't have a 1.

ModSocks · 08-21-2017, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

Yeah, well that's us. Not a real NFL team.

Silly. Alex might be worth more now than he was when the Chiefs traded for him.

scho63 · 08-21-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

DaneMcCloud do you still think there is no chance Patrick Mahomes II doesn't play this year?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If Alex is playing well, I don't think Mahomes sees the field unless Smith is injured.

The more time he has to learn and grow, the better he'll be when he's named as the starter.

Again, there's no reason to rush him.

If there is a blowout I think Mahomes could see the field

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

I see that as a negative. The Chiefs will have some big holes to fill next year and will have to rely more on FA to do it because they don't have a 1.

What holes?

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What holes?

ILB will be a massive hole, #2/3 QBs, NT, kicker, punter and will have to address OLB. They will need to do something at CB, too.

**Ming the Merciless** · 08-21-2017, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARROW2

Man, my head is gonna explode. Alex has NOT changed folks. You will see

Disagree

I do think there will be a fire under him for the obvious reasons plus he wants to showcase himself to get the best pay day /offer that he can in the future

That being said, it will probably mean he will throw a few more picks and incomplete passes as he might try to force things here and there instead of being safe.

This could actually work to our favor as long as the pressure doesn't get to him and he doesnt fall apart.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

ILB will be a massive hole, #2/3 QBs, NT, kicker, punter and will have to address OLB.

What? DJ's not been the same player since 2015 and the Chiefs don't value the ILB position. Plus, they've drafted Ramik and Eligwe, traded for KPL and have March as well.

RNR is your NT if Logan isn't re-signed, a punter should be an undrafted Free Agent and the Chiefs have Ford and Houston as their starters, with Nicolas in development.

They're not spending massive amounts of money in Free Agency. Any replacements will be through the draft.

They're not going on some $40 million dollar shopping spree, even if they do release Smith. They'll use that dough to lock up Peters and others.

**Ming the Merciless** · 08-21-2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

ILB will be a massive hole, #2/3 QBs, NT, kicker, punter and will have to address OLB. They will need to do something at CB, too.

WR as well , imo

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

WR as well , imo

I can almost guarantee that the Chiefs aren't going after some high priced WR free agent, especially after moving up for Conley and Chesson along with drafting DAT, Robinson and Hill.

Those "holes" are hardly "massive".

More like a pin hole.

08-21-2017, 12:10 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/ Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017 The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early. Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him. Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith. Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted. Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009. That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past. Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly. Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws. Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning. If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.
Posts: 88,960

08-21-2017, 02:18 PM	#46
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3225085	I'll say this - there's only one way the Chiefs will ever win the Super Bowl - that's with a charismatic, stud gunslinger QB who garners national attention. One who not only wins games, but captures the imagination, and jersey-sale dollars, of all those soulless bandwagon scumbags who fawn over whoever ESPN tells them to. When Mahomes can line up with the likes of Manning, Brady and Roethlisburger, that's when shit will start to fall in place. That's when those crushing phantom calls and obvious non-calls that nobody cares about but us start going against the other guys. That's when we start being an elite team and stop being a shiny red doormat for the elite teams. Seriously, if Manning can win it all in **ing shithole Indianapolis, Mahomes can do it in Kansas City. But Alice can't. He will NEVER be that guy. And every game he starts just delays the future that much more. Get him the ** out of here now while we can get real value for him and jump start the future.
Posts: 119,481

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