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Old 09-17-2012, 04:06 PM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Romney: 47% of Americans are victims

I guess this maybe the kill shot for his campaign. I know some of you believe you this and won't find a problem with what he said but as a person running for POTUS you probably shouldn't write off 1/2 the country especially in a disparaging way.

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A hidden camera video of Mitt Romney at a fundraiser shows him talking disparagingly of people who will vote for President Obama.

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

He adds: "My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:41 AM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post

So, if I take your word and numbers at face value (not an insult, just clarifying), isn't Romney pissing off tens of millions of people with this comment?
yeah just read what other conservatives have said that I posted.

Quote:
Noting that many of the 47 percent of Americans who don't pay income tax are core Republican groups like seniors and active military, Kristol added that "Romney seems to have contempt not just for the Democrats who oppose him, but for tens of millions who intend to vote for him."
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:42 AM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Then why would I vote for Romney? What's the incentive, especially since I strongly disagree with his social policy?
If you're voting on social policy and you disagree then you shouldn't, although I'm not sure which social policy you're afraid he would change.

Personally, I look at Obama's budgets and beliefs and see absolutely no way that an economic approach built on "fairness" and "growing from the middle out" has any chance of success. He sees no problem with creating huge deficits in his first term, and see no reason not to believe he wouldn't double the debt by the end of a second term. His policies do nothing to spur capital influx, which is necessary for job growth.

It's obviously nice to give everyone free healthcare, food, and other benefits but WE ARE BROKE as a nation. Sure we can borrow money at low rates now, but there's a reason why we aren't able to fill the hole that the Fed is filling through normal means. And we're now backed into a corner. Once market forces do what they always do, this approach will end, regardless of the fiscal engineering steps that Obama believes the government should take.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
So, if I take your word and numbers at face value (not an insult, just clarifying), isn't Romney pissing off tens of millions of people with this comment?
Yes, he is.

He is alienating me, and people like me, among millions of others.

I certainly make more than 20K a year, Not enough to warrant a need to PAY (because of student loan deductions and several others that I qualify for) and not enough to get anything back.

I end up giving up $400-500 a month out of my checks, and typically end up awash at the end of the tax year, not owing anything, and not getting anything in return.

So I'm a moocher who's dependent on the government because of that?
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Fortunately, it's been a long time since I earned $20k a year and without children, never qualified for any deductions. Taxes were withheld and I had to file a 1040 EZ each year and probably received a couple hundred dollars back, max.

So, if I take your word and numbers at face value (not an insult, just clarifying), isn't Romney pissing off tens of millions of people with this comment?
Romney is risking pissing off the following groups with his moronic blanket statement:

Senior citizens pulling down less than x amount from SS
Working poor
Soldiers currently in a combat zone
Full-time students
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Yes, he is.

He is alienating me, and people like me, among millions of others.

I certainly make more than 20K a year, Not enough to warrant a need to PAY (because of student loan deductions and several others that I qualify for) and not enough to get anything back.

I end up giving up $400-500 a month out of my checks, and typically end up awash at the end of the tax year, not owing anything, and not getting anything in return.

So I'm a moocher who's dependent on the government because of that?
I love how the same comment has managed to energize such different groups in exactly opposite ways.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:47 AM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanman View Post
Romney is risking pissing off the following groups with his moronic blanket statement:

Senior citizens pulling down less than x amount from SS
Working poor
Soldiers currently in a combat zone
Full-time students
That's what the left certainly hopes.

Although I'd say that this comment is going to be greeted by a lot of them with shrugs.

We'll see what the polls say in a week and if Obama gets a bounce that last longer than the short-lived one that he got out of his convention.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:48 AM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Yes, he is.

He is alienating me, and people like me, among millions of others.

I certainly make more than 20K a year, Not enough to warrant a need to PAY (because of student loan deductions and several others that I qualify for) and not enough to get anything back.

I end up giving up $400-500 a month out of my checks, and typically end up awash at the end of the tax year, not owing anything, and not getting anything in return.

So I'm a moocher who's dependent on the government because of that?
You arent in that group. You do have tax liability, you just had it satisfied through tax withholdings from your paycheck, thus not having to make an additional payment in April.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #443
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I doubt soldiers would get pissed off at this. Perhaps some.

So, perhaps Mitt should just qualify his statement better by saying 47% want entitlements for others if they don't want them for themselves. So they're still for entitlements. They still have entitlement mentality.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
If you're voting on social policy and you disagree then you shouldn't, although I'm not sure which social policy you're afraid he would change.
I don't care for Romney/Ryan's views on gay marriage, abortion, Equal Pay and so on. While Romney/Ryan may not be able to enact legislation preventing abortion, gay marriage, etc., they will likely appoint another conservative to the bench, which may lead to future legislation, which scares me.

I'm really trying hard to find a reason to believe that Romney/Ryan would be fiscally responsible and attempt to reverse this mess but to date, I can find no evidence and no one has been able to convince me it would happen.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by Swanman View Post
You arent in that group. You do have tax liability, you just had it satisfied through tax withholdings from your paycheck, thus not having to make an additional payment in April.
Ah ok, that's what i wanted clarified.

Whether or not that 47% included those who did not need to pay an additional tax and the end of the tax year.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:53 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I don't care for Romney/Ryan's views on gay marriage, abortion, Equal Pay and so on. While Romney/Ryan may not be able to enact legislation preventing abortion, gay marriage, etc., they will likely appoint another conservative to the bench, which may lead to future legislation, which scares me.

I'm really trying hard to find a reason to believe that Romney/Ryan would be fiscally responsible and attempt to reverse this mess but to date, I can find no evidence and no one has been able to convince me it would happen.
If they appoint a real conservative justice, then they'd send gay marriage back to the states. Is that so bad, particularly where you live?
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:54 AM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I don't care for Romney/Ryan's views on gay marriage, abortion, Equal Pay and so on. While Romney/Ryan may not be able to enact legislation preventing abortion, gay marriage, etc., they will likely appoint another conservative to the bench, which may lead to future legislation, which scares me.

I'm really trying hard to find a reason to believe that Romney/Ryan would be fiscally responsible and attempt to reverse this mess but to date, I can find no evidence and no one has been able to convince me it would happen.
Not debating your other points, but have you been and would you be okay with another Obama selection to the bench? His selections have been questionable at best IMO.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
If it truly is the latter, then holy shit that is a blunder of epic proportions.
The statistic can be found in this table. It's in the "Tax Units With Zero or Negative Individual Income Tax" row. Last column.

It's the percentage of people who, after all is said and done for the 2011 tax year, don't end up paying any individual federal income tax (if they had some withheld, they get a refund) and in some cases they actually get a payment from the government.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:00 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The statistic can be found in this table. It's in the "Tax Units With Zero or Negative Individual Income Tax" row. Last column.

It's the percentage of people who, after all is said and done for the 2011 tax year, don't end up paying any individual federal income tax (if they had some withheld, they get a refund) and in some cases they actually get a payment from the government.
So he's still alienating a % of the working class then.

The "Working Poor" as someone has pointed out.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:00 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I don't care for Romney/Ryan's views on gay marriage, abortion, Equal Pay and so on. While Romney/Ryan may not be able to enact legislation preventing abortion, gay marriage, etc., they will likely appoint another conservative to the bench, which may lead to future legislation, which scares me.
Fair enough. Though, even with another conservative on the bench I doubt you're going to see those issues impacted, but I could be wrong.

Quote:
I'm really trying hard to find a reason to believe that Romney/Ryan would be fiscally responsible and attempt to reverse this mess but to date, I can find no evidence and no one has been able to convince me it would happen.
It's up to him to lay that out to your satisfaction. Obama's complete and total lack of interest in curbing spending, combined with the damage that Obamacare would cause if it's not rolled back, are enough for me. Romney may just take out 8 new credit cards instead of 10, but I do think (based on what they say) that spending has to be curtailed and the tax code revised to eliminate many of the federal deductions taken by those that don't need them. I don't buy for a second that Obama even sees a problem.
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