***Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012

Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM

St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited.

With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary.

Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat.
As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year.

That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run.
Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season.

Trevor Rosenthal
When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special.
Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run.

He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show.
In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs.
It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013.

Shelby Miller
The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show.
In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP.

Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that.
Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win.

Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013.

Joe Kelly
When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season.
Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates.

When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue.
In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen.
There's a good chance that could be his home in the future.

Mike Matheny
When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise.

He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes.
His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success.
True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager.

NLCS loss means more drive to win
While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player.
The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons.

What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner.

Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player.

The run was without several key components
In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season.
The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup.

The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint.

Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment.

They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan
Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were?

Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire.
Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team.
The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of.

No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape.
What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think.
After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months.

From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051

[OnTheWarpath15]

Heading to Dallas next week, and noticed that Springfield is playing at Frisco that weekend. Probably catch a game.

Anyone to get a good look at other than Oscar Taveras and Kolton Wong?

[Frazod]

Cubs lost to the Mets today 17-1 at Wrigley.

Jesus. I'm actually on the brink of feeling sorry for them.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Bar time

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yup.

But they also shut him down last time through the rotation to get him working on his mechanics. Additionally, his velocity has come down a MPH or 2.

He's a pitcher; they have bumps like this unless they're Strasburg. I'm not worried just yet - but I also have an irrational love of Tyrell Jenkins as a pitching prospect and think he'll be the true ace from our minor league system. If we can trade Miller for a young 'co-ace' that can hold down the fort for the next 5 years, I'd do it in a second. A guy like Lance Lynn preventing us from needing to spend $10 million on Jake Westbrook is incredibly useful here in that it allows us to really go hard after a top-shelf starter. Allen Craig does the same thing w/ his contributions over Lance Berkman as does Jay's wildly underrated performance in CF.

We should have the financial flexibility to both extend Waino and sign Hamels/Greinke (I'd prefer Greinke). With the baseball pendulum swinging back away from maulers, I think we should attack front-end starting pitching aggressively.

IMO, if you could swing something for Hamels or Greinke, you do it.


I would like to keep ahold of Miller, but Jenkins is kind of skyrocketing anyway.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

I think Cox is the natural person to be traded. If the price for SP is too steep, wouldn't be surprised if they go for RP instead.

I agree that Cox is the only expendable trade bait that we have, I just question the value we will recieve in return.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There are actually quite a few decent arms that may hit the market.

Garza and Dempster being the obvious ones, but Liriano could be available and I think he'd be a great fill-in for Garcia. With his pending FA and erratic history, Cox would probably be enough to get him.

I dont think Cox is seen by other clubs as having that much value.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Or go all-in on Hamels or Grienke. To be honest, both players are young enough (and our stable of arms deep enough) that I'd give Miller to get either guy.

No, Hell no on Grienke. That little shit could decide to quit baseball or phone it in after he gets his money or has a mental break down. Let someone else gamble on him. The price for Hamels will be as steep as anyone who has ever hit the market. And he will be a rental that will go to the highest bidder in the off season. I'd rather sign/extend Waino than go after Hamels.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by O.city

IMO, if you could swing something for Hamels or Greinke, you do it.


I would like to keep ahold of Miller, but Jenkins is kind of skyrocketing anyway.

Do you guys not live in KC? Grienke is damaged goods. He is a weird dude who could flake out at any mintue.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Do you guys not live in KC? Grienke is damaged goods. He is a weird dude who could flake out at any mintue.

I don't want him either, especially at the dollars he would likely command. I would be tempted to take Hamels for Miller now. He is only 28, a solid number 2 if not a 1A starter. Being a lefty is a plus, especially in short series playoff match ups. Miller is at the cusp reputation wise, still highly regarded, and young, but judging from this year I think he is at least two years away from being a factor in a rotation. He could start dropping in his value if he doesn't start to make some adjustments with his approach to his game. He has a good arm, but he ain't in high school anymore and a 93-94 mph fastball won't get you by alone.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I don't want him either, especially at the dollars he would likely command. I would be tempted to take Hamels for Miller now. He is only 28, a solid number 2 if not a 1A starter. Being a lefty is a plus, especially in short series playoff match ups. Miller is at the cusp reputation wise, still highly regarded, and young, but judging from this year I think he is at least two years away from being a factor in a rotation. He could start dropping in his value if he doesn't start to make some adjustments with his approach to his game. He has a good arm, but he ain't in high school anymore and a 93-94 mph fastball won't get you by alone.

Trade a prospect that most teams consider the best pitching prospect in baseball for a rental player?

Miller is just a kid. He's probably arrogant, thinks he knows everything and not taking instruction well. He's getting drunk too often. He just needs to grow up. His upside is way to high for a rental.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Trade a prospect that most teams consider the best pitching prospect in baseball for a rental player?

Miller is just a kid. He's probably arrogant, thinks he knows everything and not taking instruction well. He's getting drunk too often. He just needs to grow up. His upside is way to high for a rental.

I meant to say if you could sign him (Hamels). My main point is that I wouldn't necessarily call Miller off limits if a proven commodity of need is out there as an option. It wouldn't surprise me if Rosenthal makes it before Miller.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I meant to say if you could sign him (Hamels). My main point is that I wouldn't necessarily call Miller off limits if a proven commodity of need is out there as an option. It wouldn't surprise me if Rosenthal makes it before Miller.

We couldnt resign Hamels and extend Waino. I'd rather have Waino.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We couldnt resign Hamels and extend Waino. I'd rather have Waino.

I wouldn't see that as an either/or scenario necessarily. We have 20 million leaving the books next year in Lohse/Westbrook.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I wouldn't see that as an either/or scenario necessarily. We have 20 million leaving the books next year in Lohse/Westbrook.

Lohse will probably get resigned. I was never sold on Westbrook. He is Donovan Osborn part 2 without the hot streaks. How much of that is Lohse? Could be doable. When is the last time we had a lefty threat?

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by whoman69

Lohse will probably get resigned. I was never sold on Westbrook. He is Donovan Osborn part 2 without the hot streaks. How much of that is Lohse? Could be doable. When is the last time we had a lefty threat?

I think Lohse is about 11.5 and Westbrook is a little under 8.5.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I wouldn't see that as an either/or scenario necessarily. We have 20 million leaving the books next year in Lohse/Westbrook.

No we dont. Loshe will re resigned at $11-12 million. Budget $7-8 million for a Waino raise and your even.