*** Official Cincinnati Reds @ Kansas City Royals Game Thread (5/20) ***

[alnorth]

Final	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
CIN (18-22)	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	9	0
KC (26-14)	0	1	0	3	1	0	0	2	X	7	10	0

Loss, (3-4) Jason Marquis 3⅔IP 4R 4ER 0BB 1K
Ryan Mattheus 1⅓IP 1R 1ER 0BB 0K
Burke Badenhop 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Michael Lorenzen 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 0K
Raisel Iglesias 1IP 2R 2ER 1BB 0K

VS.



Win, (4-2) Jeremy Guthrie 6IP 0R 0ER 2BB 3K
Ryan Madson 1IP 1R 1ER 0BB 1K
Wade Davis 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Luke Hochevar 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 2K

Home Runs

none

AL Central

Final / 13: MIN 4, PIT 3
Final: MIL 2, DET 5
Final: CLE 4, CWS 3

Starting Lineups

CIN

1. Zack Cozart, SS
2. Brandon Phillips, 2B
3. Joey Votto, 1B
4. Todd Frazier, 3B
5. Marlon Byrd, LF
6. Jay Bruce, RF
7. Devin Mesoraco, DH
8. Billy Hamilton, CF
8. Skip Schumaker, ph
9. Tucker Barnhart, C
9. Brennan Boesch, ph

KC

1. Alcides Escobar, SS
2. Mike Moustakas, 3B
3. Lorenzo Cain, CF
4. Eric Hosmer, 1B
5. Kendrys Morales, DH
6. Alex Gordon, LF
7. Salvador Perez, C
8. Omar Infante, 2B
9. Paulo Orlando, RF

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Would be a great day to give Salvador Perez a break. Mediocre RH pitcher on the mound, Guthrie starting.

Rest the big man while you can.

I do feel comfortable with Butera in that he at least provides MOST of the defense Salvy does... and adds a little bit with his pitch framing that Salvy cannot.

2 day break similar to what they did with Gordon on Sunday.

[CaliforniaChief]

I agree on going with Butera, but I think Yost already said Sal was starting.

Talk about a titillating pitching matchup.

I can't overstate how impressed I am with 30,000 people showing up at the K on a Tuesday night in less than ideal weather against a less than impressive opponent with no stars and no rivalry.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Would be a great day to give Salvador Perez a break. Mediocre RH pitcher on the mound, Guthrie starting.

Rest the big man while you can.

I do feel comfortable with Butera in that he at least provides MOST of the defense Salvy does... and adds a little bit with his pitch framing that Salvy cannot.

Don't forget, he's good at "pitch framing". Cuz this is really important.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Don't forget, he's good at "pitch framing". Cuz this is really important.

It seems to be working well for JGuts. Whatever it takes for him to be more effective on the mound, even if it's BS, is fine by me. We desperately need him to be the pitcher he was for most of 2014 (sans his blow up month in July).

[ChiefsCountry]

Feels like October weather today.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Don't forget, he's good at "pitch framing". Cuz this is really important.

Maybe I remember it wrong or the stats have been updated, but I thought the stats showed that framing was Salvy's only defensive weakness?

[Munson]

In for another win!

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Don't forget, he's good at "pitch framing". Cuz this is really important.

It actually is ... I guess "good defense" isn't important, either ... and "defensive runs saved" is a made up stat, too

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Maybe I remember it wrong or the stats have been updated, but I thought the stats showed that framing was Salvy's only defensive weakness?

Guys like Jon Lucroy have showed how valuable pitch framing can be if you're excellent at it ... it's as important as throwing out baserunners

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Don't forget, he's good at "pitch framing". Cuz this is really important.

It is.

Originally Posted by alnorth

Maybe I remember it wrong or the stats have been updated, but I thought the stats showed that framing was Salvy's only defensive weakness?

Salvy is not good at it. He's too jerky... which makes it easy for the umpire to tell what he's doing. He needs to get much more subtle with his framing motions, and I'm not sure how you teach someone to do that. I never caught, so it's kind of greek to me.

I can say with a fair amount of confidence that however well it can be taught, Pedro Grifol is probably the wrong guy to be doing it. Guy is great at kissing ass and terrible at everything else.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Guys like Jon Lucroy have showed how valuable pitch framing can be if you're excellent at it ... it's as important as throwing out baserunners

It is very important, I'm just saying that I thought the stats showed Salvy wasn't great at it.

For years saber nerds had suspected that there may be something to the skill of stealing a few extra strikes a game, but they could never really measure it or be sure until recently. The first few studies that came out recently were actually pretty shocking, they showed that yes, not only was framing important as we all suspected it might be, but it was WAY more important than anyone had ever guessed. The stats show that framing is so important, that it should be right up there with throwing out baserunners when evaluating a catcher's defensive value to the team.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

It actually is ... I guess "good defense" isn't important, either ... and "defensive runs saved" is a made up stat, too

Defense, especially outfield defense in big parks is undervalued. All umps should be fired, if pitch framing is really a big deal. All of them.

[Hootie]

Read:

http://grantland.com/features/studyi...molina-others/

[alnorth]

I think the stat nerds currently believe that the very best pitch framers can add about 2.5-3 WAR just on framing alone, and the very worst pitch framers can lose about a couple WAR. (obviously most are somewhere in the middle, gaining or losing about a win a year on their framing)

That is pretty tremendous for such an overlooked, under-appreciated skill.

[Hootie]

personally I think it would be a sad day to digitize the strike zone and get rid of the human element of baseball ... I hope it never happens