Other Sports MLB Hall of Fame class 2013. Will no one get in? - Page 2

Deberg_1990 · 01-09-2013, 10:07 AM

Will no one make it this year?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/h...d-thing-010613

I already can hear it, the outcry if no player gets elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

“The Hall is in trouble.”

“The writers are fools.”

“SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.”

Wrong, wrong and wrong again.

Yes, there is a chance — a good chance, perhaps — that no candidate received the required 75 percent of the vote from the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America.

The ballots were due on New Year’s Eve. The results will be announced Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET on MLB Network. But if the voters indeed pitched a shutout, it almost certainly will be a one-year aberration, not a reflection of any larger truths.

I recognize that snark is the preferred mode of communication in a breathless social-media environment full of knee-jerk reactions and instant expertise. But all those preparing to get lathered up, take a deep breath and calm down.

Oh, I’m not downplaying the significance of what might occur. The Hall, as an institution, surely would prefer that Induction Weekend features, well, an actual inductee. Even in 1996, the last time that the BBWAA failed to elect a player, the Veterans Committee delivered Jim Bunning, Earl Weaver and two posthumous honorees, Bill Foster and Ned Hanlon.

This year, the third of the VC’s new rotating eras format, produced three pre-integration era inductees — umpire Hank O’Day, former Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert and 19th-century catcher/third baseman Deacon White. All have been dead since at least 1939.

More than 40 living Hall of Famers are expected to attend the induction ceremony, but the attendance at Cooperstown could fall below 10,000, the approximate number who attended the ’96 ceremony. It certainly won’t approach the record 75,000 that saw Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. inducted in 2007.

The Hall would not sugarcoat such an outcome and pretend it’s good for business. But Hall officials will tell you that they prefer a true election, whatever the outcome. They also will tell you that with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas coming onto the ballot next year, they’re confident that the podium will not be empty in 2014.

Heck, it’s not even a foregone conclusion that the podium will be empty this year, not when Jack Morris received 66.7 percent of the vote a year ago and Craig Biggio and Mike Piazza are first-time candidates with no known connections to performance-enhancing drugs.

If no player is elected, it will be due to the large number of intriguing first-time eligible candidates — voters can select no more than 10 players — and more significantly, the consternation over the candidates linked to PEDs.

But that consternation — the intense debate over what to do with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and others — is not a bad thing for the Hall. If anything, it underscores the special place that Cooperstown holds in every fan’s heart.

The voters are easy to criticize. Some baseball writers who are not voters take particular delight in crushing those of us who are (a writer gets to vote after serving 10 consecutive years in the BBWAA, and full-time writers from websites are now eligible to become members.)

No problem — we’re all fair game. But the truth is, I’ve read and heard some remarkably intelligent discourses from my colleagues over the past several weeks — even ones who I strongly disagree with. The high level of debate has made me proud to be a member of the BBWAA.

One non-voter referred to those of us who struggled with our votes as “drama queens,” which I found rather amusing. Would it be better if we approached our ballots frivolously, without thought? Sorry, most of us feel a strong sense of responsibility to the process. The public hand-wringing is largely an attempt by many writers to be transparent to their readers.

Baseball is a talking sport, a sport that produces arguments like none other. The Hall arguments are especially passionate. You may agree with some, disagree with others. But the debate over the PED users, while occasionally maddening, is not a bad thing for the Hall, or for baseball. We’re talking, after all, about the game’s soul.

I fully expect the Twitter version of a banshee howl if no player is elected, but no change will need to be made to the voting procedures, particularly when we likely are looking at a one-time result. If the same thing happened in 2014 and ’15, that would be something different, an unacceptable outcome. At that point, the Hall would need to adjust.

I’m not saying the BBWAA voters are perfect — we have made mistakes, and we undoubtedly will make more. But for the most part, we’ve gotten it right over the years, and I’m confident we’ll eventually get to the right place on the PED users — whatever that place may be.

Garcia Bronco · 01-09-2013, 01:21 PM

Bonds, McGuire, Clemens and Schilling should all be in....it's a no brain-er.

As far as PED's...baseball has been on PEDs since the 50's so give it a rest.

Deberg_1990 · 01-09-2013, 01:23 PM

Biggio will get in eventually....just didnt quite cut it as a "first ballot" election

Chief Roundup · 01-09-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Bonds, McGuire, Clemens and Schilling should all be in....it's a no brain-er.

As far as PED's...baseball has been on PEDs since the 50's so give it a rest.

I agree. I don't want players using PEDs but the writers are punishing the players for MLBs lack of being proactive and having a good policy in place. And yes people don't want to talk about back when the teams were actually giving players "greenies" to play the day night double headers in a row etc. Now they are going to punish anyone that they don't know about because of a "cloud" over the whole era.
To me they should just realize that it always has been part of any competitive sport and always will be. Whether it was greenies, coke, ephdra or HGH. Every person in an organization from the player to the owner is looking for an advantage.
I can also see a difference, once baseball put a legitmate screening program in place, that someone caught after that would be held accountable differently than someone caught or suspected before that time.

whoman69 · 01-09-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

I agree. I don't want players using PEDs but the writers are punishing the players for MLBs lack of being proactive and having a good policy in place. And yes people don't want to talk about back when the teams were actually giving players "greenies" to play the day night double headers in a row etc. Now they are going to punish anyone that they don't know about because of a "cloud" over the whole era.
To me they should just realize that it always has been part of any competitive sport and always will be. Whether it was greenies, coke, ephdra or HGH. Every person in an organization from the player to the owner is looking for an advantage.
I can also see a difference, once baseball put a legitmate screening program in place, that someone caught after that would be held accountable differently than someone caught or suspected before that time.

By proactive do you mean the union allowing testing to take place? There were rules against PEDs going back years, but they had no teeth because the union headed by Donald Fehr refused to allow testing until Congress took over.

duncan_idaho · 01-09-2013, 02:51 PM

A few thoughts...

I don't mind Biggio not getting in on his first ballot. First-ballot HOF types are unquestioned superstars who are MVP winners, guys who dominated leagues for several years.

Biggio is not that guy.

I don't really care about any of the steroid guys getting in. So what. Those guys made their choices and seem happy with them.

I don't buy Jack Morris as a HOF guy. YEah, he was hard-nosed and tough. Yeah, he pitched for two WS winners. But the guy was just VERY GOOD, not great. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good (and yes, if I had a chance, I would kick out several players who don't deserve to be in the hall, among them Rabbit Maranville, Phil Rizzuto, Pee Wee Reese, etc.).

kcxiv · 01-09-2013, 03:02 PM

lol, i am laughing the players give a shit if they get into the hall of fame or not. Is it a nice prize at tghe end of a career? sure, but the money they make is by far greater to them. they can actually enjoy it.

Do you really think SammY Sosa gives a ****? or Manny Ramirez these guys grew up with no ****ing shows paying baseball in the mud with little or nothing. Now because of some talent and some steriods they are going to live like kings the rest of their life in their poor country. Its well well worth the risk.

Sammy and Manny chillen drinking some drinks on a beach somewhere smiling from ear to ear.

**chefsos** · 01-09-2013, 03:14 PM

...And business owners all over Cooperstown look for a tall building with windows that open outward, or maybe a bridge.

scho63 · 01-09-2013, 03:29 PM

If Pete Rose isn't getting in, neither should Bonds, McGuire, or Clemens or any other steroid junkie.

Glad they got so little votes

KC_Connection · 01-09-2013, 03:33 PM

Look at that, the BBWAA let down baseball again in a more completely embarrassing, hypocritical, and holier-than-thou way than usual. What kind of Hall of Fame doesn't allow two of the greatest players in the sport's history in? One that's not worth paying attention to.

blaise · 01-09-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

If Pete Rose isn't getting in, neither should Bonds, McGuire, or Clemens or any other steroid junkie.

Glad they got so little votes

Pete's not even eligible because he broke a rule that every ball player knows you can't break.

BlackHelicopters · 01-09-2013, 06:18 PM

Baseball writers become more irrelevant every year. Newspapers are dead. Vin Scully does not have a HOF vote.

TEX · 01-09-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

If Pete Rose isn't getting in, neither should Bonds, McGuire, or Clemens or any other steroid junkie.

Glad they got so little votes

But Craig Biggio should have. Dude came up as a Catcher, made the All Star team, tjan became an All Star 2nd Baseman and finished his career in the outfield. Along the way he got more than 3,000 hits snd 400+ steals 660+ doubles. He has HOF numbers. Easily.

Mama Hip Rockets · 01-09-2013, 06:32 PM

My top 10, in order of awesomeness, and separated by HOFers and non-HOFers.

DEFINITELY SHOULD BE IN THE HALL:
1. Barry Bonds - It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Guys. He was far and away the best player of his era, steroids or not. Plus, he's famous.
2. Mark McGwire - See above, except for the part about the best player.
3. Tim Raines - This one is just mind-boggling. Sixth year on ballot and he's not in? 808 stolen bases and a career .385 OBP. Amazing player.
4. Mike Piazza - Record-setting numbers for a catcher, and Hall of Fame numbers regardless of position.
5. Roger Clemens - 7 Cy Young Awards.
6. Jeff Bagwell - 162-game average: .297 AVG, .408 OBP, 34 HR, 115 RBI. Those look like Hall of Fame numbers to me.
7. Sammy Sosa - 609 homers. Enough said.

NOT QUITE:
8. Larry Walker - Great player, but probably not quite Hall of Fame-worthy.
9. Fred McGriff - The nickname Crime Dog alone should get him in the Hall, but I don't think it will.
10. Edgar Martinez - An excellent hitter but loses some credibility for being a DH and not having overwhelming power numbers.

TEX · 01-09-2013, 06:39 PM

Therman, Biggio is not on your list. Why?

Frazod · 01-09-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Therman, Biggio is not on your list. Why?

I'll tell you why he's not on my list - that goddamn kevlar brace he wore on his arm (just like cheater Bonds). Allowed him to crowd the plate with no fear of getting injured. Screw 'em both.

01-09-2013, 10:07 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3944454	MLB Hall of Fame class 2013. Will no one get in? Will no one make it this year? http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/h...d-thing-010613 I already can hear it, the outcry if no player gets elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. “The Hall is in trouble.” “The writers are fools.” “SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.” Wrong, wrong and wrong again. Yes, there is a chance — a good chance, perhaps — that no candidate received the required 75 percent of the vote from the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America. The ballots were due on New Year’s Eve. The results will be announced Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET on MLB Network. But if the voters indeed pitched a shutout, it almost certainly will be a one-year aberration, not a reflection of any larger truths. I recognize that snark is the preferred mode of communication in a breathless social-media environment full of knee-jerk reactions and instant expertise. But all those preparing to get lathered up, take a deep breath and calm down. Oh, I’m not downplaying the significance of what might occur. The Hall, as an institution, surely would prefer that Induction Weekend features, well, an actual inductee. Even in 1996, the last time that the BBWAA failed to elect a player, the Veterans Committee delivered Jim Bunning, Earl Weaver and two posthumous honorees, Bill Foster and Ned Hanlon. This year, the third of the VC’s new rotating eras format, produced three pre-integration era inductees — umpire Hank O’Day, former Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert and 19th-century catcher/third baseman Deacon White. All have been dead since at least 1939. More than 40 living Hall of Famers are expected to attend the induction ceremony, but the attendance at Cooperstown could fall below 10,000, the approximate number who attended the ’96 ceremony. It certainly won’t approach the record 75,000 that saw Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. inducted in 2007. The Hall would not sugarcoat such an outcome and pretend it’s good for business. But Hall officials will tell you that they prefer a true election, whatever the outcome. They also will tell you that with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas coming onto the ballot next year, they’re confident that the podium will not be empty in 2014. Heck, it’s not even a foregone conclusion that the podium will be empty this year, not when Jack Morris received 66.7 percent of the vote a year ago and Craig Biggio and Mike Piazza are first-time candidates with no known connections to performance-enhancing drugs. If no player is elected, it will be due to the large number of intriguing first-time eligible candidates — voters can select no more than 10 players — and more significantly, the consternation over the candidates linked to PEDs. But that consternation — the intense debate over what to do with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and others — is not a bad thing for the Hall. If anything, it underscores the special place that Cooperstown holds in every fan’s heart. The voters are easy to criticize. Some baseball writers who are not voters take particular delight in crushing those of us who are (a writer gets to vote after serving 10 consecutive years in the BBWAA, and full-time writers from websites are now eligible to become members.) No problem — we’re all fair game. But the truth is, I’ve read and heard some remarkably intelligent discourses from my colleagues over the past several weeks — even ones who I strongly disagree with. The high level of debate has made me proud to be a member of the BBWAA. One non-voter referred to those of us who struggled with our votes as “drama queens,” which I found rather amusing. Would it be better if we approached our ballots frivolously, without thought? Sorry, most of us feel a strong sense of responsibility to the process. The public hand-wringing is largely an attempt by many writers to be transparent to their readers. Baseball is a talking sport, a sport that produces arguments like none other. The Hall arguments are especially passionate. You may agree with some, disagree with others. But the debate over the PED users, while occasionally maddening, is not a bad thing for the Hall, or for baseball. We’re talking, after all, about the game’s soul. I fully expect the Twitter version of a banshee howl if no player is elected, but no change will need to be made to the voting procedures, particularly when we likely are looking at a one-time result. If the same thing happened in 2014 and ’15, that would be something different, an unacceptable outcome. At that point, the Hall would need to adjust. I’m not saying the BBWAA voters are perfect — we have made mistakes, and we undoubtedly will make more. But for the most part, we’ve gotten it right over the years, and I’m confident we’ll eventually get to the right place on the PED users — whatever that place may be.
Posts: 66,914

01-09-2013, 01:21 PM	#16
Garcia Bronco No Keys, No Problem Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denver Casino cash: $5403136	Bonds, McGuire, Clemens and Schilling should all be in....it's a no brain-er. As far as PED's...baseball has been on PEDs since the 50's so give it a rest.
Posts: 30,786

01-09-2013, 01:23 PM	#17
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3944454	Biggio will get in eventually....just didnt quite cut it as a "first ballot" election __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 66,914

01-09-2013, 02:51 PM	#20
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1870308	A few thoughts... I don't mind Biggio not getting in on his first ballot. First-ballot HOF types are unquestioned superstars who are MVP winners, guys who dominated leagues for several years. Biggio is not that guy. I don't really care about any of the steroid guys getting in. So what. Those guys made their choices and seem happy with them. I don't buy Jack Morris as a HOF guy. YEah, he was hard-nosed and tough. Yeah, he pitched for two WS winners. But the guy was just VERY GOOD, not great. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good (and yes, if I had a chance, I would kick out several players who don't deserve to be in the hall, among them Rabbit Maranville, Phil Rizzuto, Pee Wee Reese, etc.). __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,029

01-09-2013, 03:02 PM	#21
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	lol, i am laughing the players give a shit if they get into the hall of fame or not. Is it a nice prize at tghe end of a career? sure, but the money they make is by far greater to them. they can actually enjoy it. Do you really think SammY Sosa gives a **? or Manny Ramirez these guys grew up with no **ing shows paying baseball in the mud with little or nothing. Now because of some talent and some steriods they are going to live like kings the rest of their life in their poor country. Its well well worth the risk. Sammy and Manny chillen drinking some drinks on a beach somewhere smiling from ear to ear.
Posts: 29,110

01-09-2013, 03:14 PM	#22
chefsos Fifty eight sixty two... Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Felton, DE Casino cash: $8537676	...And business owners all over Cooperstown look for a tall building with windows that open outward, or maybe a bridge.
Posts: 9,449

01-09-2013, 03:29 PM	#23
scho63 Politically Incorrect Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Casino cash: $2891110	If Pete Rose isn't getting in, neither should Bonds, McGuire, or Clemens or any other steroid junkie. Glad they got so little votes __________________ *"The only difference between sex for free and sex for money is that sex for free costs you a WHOLE LOT more!"* ~Redd Foxx~ ~~2018 2019 2020 20212022 2023~~ 2024 Adopt a Chief - Clark Hunt and Brett Veach "The men who drafted Patrick Mahomes"
Posts: 50,394

01-09-2013, 03:33 PM	#24
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $5492783	Look at that, the BBWAA let down baseball again in a more completely embarrassing, hypocritical, and holier-than-thou way than usual. What kind of Hall of Fame doesn't allow two of the greatest players in the sport's history in? One that's not worth paying attention to.
Posts: 48,557

01-09-2013, 06:18 PM	#26
BlackHelicopters Spiraling down the Drain Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Dante's Ninth Circle Casino cash: $2830588	Baseball writers become more irrelevant every year. Newspapers are dead. Vin Scully does not have a HOF vote. __________________ "We're both part of the same hypocrisy, Senator, but never think it applies to my family." "Fredo. You are my brother, and I love you. But never take sides against the Family again. Ever." 2019 Adopt a Chief - Travis Kelce #87
Posts: 31,639

01-09-2013, 06:32 PM	#28
Mama Hip Rockets You don't faze me, Gobble. Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $10005644	My top 10, in order of awesomeness, and separated by HOFers and non-HOFers. DEFINITELY SHOULD BE IN THE HALL: 1. Barry Bonds - It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Guys. He was far and away the best player of his era, steroids or not. Plus, he's famous. 2. Mark McGwire - See above, except for the part about the best player. 3. Tim Raines - This one is just mind-boggling. Sixth year on ballot and he's not in? 808 stolen bases and a career .385 OBP. Amazing player. 4. Mike Piazza - Record-setting numbers for a catcher, and Hall of Fame numbers regardless of position. 5. Roger Clemens - 7 Cy Young Awards. 6. Jeff Bagwell - 162-game average: .297 AVG, .408 OBP, 34 HR, 115 RBI. Those look like Hall of Fame numbers to me. 7. Sammy Sosa - 609 homers. Enough said. NOT QUITE: 8. Larry Walker - Great player, but probably not quite Hall of Fame-worthy. 9. Fred McGriff - The nickname Crime Dog alone should get him in the Hall, but I don't think it will. 10. Edgar Martinez - An excellent hitter but loses some credibility for being a DH and not having overwhelming power numbers.
Posts: 13,675

01-09-2013, 06:39 PM	#29
TEX Out Gunning CP's Fandom Police Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Laguna Beach, CA Casino cash: $2473127	Therman, Biggio is not on your list. Why? __________________ "The CHIEFS, HAVE THEIR DYNASTY!"
Posts: 34,637

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