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Old 04-14-2017, 07:49 PM  
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****Official 2017 NBA Playoffs Thread****

The real season begins.

Round 1:

EAST:

#8 Bulls @ #1 Celtics
#7 Pacers @ #2 Cavs
#6 Bucks @ #3 Raptors
#5 Hawks @ #4 Wizards

WEST:
#8 Blazers @ #1 Warriors
#7 Grizzlies @ #2 Spurs
#6 Thunder @ #3 Rockets
#5 Jazz @ #4 Clippers
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:35 PM   #946
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Jordan was able to summon an extra gear unlike anyone I've ever seen. The flu game is probably the greatest example, but even the last minute of play against the Jazz in '98 or the 4th quarter against the Pacers in Game 7 of the ECF that year he was totally shot and he just willed himself to the line. He had reserves of energy I've never seen before.

He and LeBron are different players, though, so an apples-to-apples comparison will never work. LeBron is actually a better outside shooter than Jordan by a fair margin (but to be fair, the 3pt line wasn't introduced into the NBA until Jordan was heading to he UNC, so he didn't grow up with it).

Jordan was a much better mid-range shooter than LeBron. In his second act, he was probably the best mid-range shooter in the game. Jordan was also a better FT shooter (by a fair margin) and a much more creative scorer at the rim capable of the most acrobatic and amazing finishes of any player ever, in large part because aggravated mayhem was allowed in the NBA at that time. LeBron has significantly more power and is as close to unstoppable as anyone in NBA history on the break (better even than Jordan). If the Bad Boy Pistons tried to foul LeBron like that (and he was conditioned not to flop), he'd end up killing guys like Mahorn and Laimbeer, because he is orders of magnitude stronger than them.

Jordan was a superior perimeter defender to LeBron, but he was also aided by having Pippen, who was the greatest perimeter defender who ever lived (and both are probably top-5). Jordan also had quicker hands, but LeBron is much more capable of defending bigs than Jordan due to his size.

LeBron was a better passer with a more natural feel for distribution, but Jordan was exceptionally skilled and extremely underrated at passing. When he had to play point guard at one point (maybe Collins' last year or Phil's first in Chicago), he averaged a triple double for a three week period.

If you told me I had to pick one player to pick to lead a team with my life on the line, I'm picking Jordan. But if you told me I had to pick five players to make a team, I'd take five LeBrons over five Jordans.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:37 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
No shit. Can you imagine Lebron taking on The Bad Boys or Rileys Knicks? He wouldn't survive the series.
He has the frame for it and if he'd grown up then he might have developed the mental toughness.
Teams like golden State would be annihilated.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:37 PM   #948
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No shit. Can you imagine Lebron taking on The Bad Boys or Rileys Knicks? He wouldn't survive the series.

What?
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:38 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Hah, no. Green is pure D ignorant and would get knocked around.
Bill Laimbeer was tough as hell when he could low bridge someone else who was jumping up (Patrick Ewing), or clothesline a guy going up for a layup (Larry Bird), but any time someone stepped to him, he either got his clocked cleaned or backed down like a bitch.

And Draymond is no Charles Oakley (or James Johnson, who would kill Charles Oakley), but he's a damned sight tougher than Bill Laimbeer
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:39 PM   #950
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People sale short team chemistry as well. Great teams are more than a collection of talent. The 14 Spurs team may have had some guys long in the tooth but they played at a level as a team that rivaled The great Bulls, Celtics, Lakers teams. Just beautiful to watch.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:40 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry View Post
The player who is built like Karl Malone couldn't handle play.
Built like Tarzan but soft as Jane. Lets not act like he is Anthony Mason/Ben Wallace because of his build.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:41 PM   #952
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
People sale short team chemistry as well. Great teams are more than a collection of talent. The 14 Spurs team may have had some guys long in the tooth but they played at a level as a team that rivaled The great Bulls, Celtics, Lakers teams. Just beautiful to watch.
Have you seen the Warriors play basketball?
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:43 PM   #953
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Have you seen the Warriors play basketball?
Have you seen the rest of his basketball takes?
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:58 PM   #954
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Bill Laimbeer was tough as hell when he could low bridge someone else who was jumping up (Patrick Ewing), or clothesline a guy going up for a layup (Larry Bird), but any time someone stepped to him, he either got his clocked cleaned or backed down like a bitch.

And Draymond is no Charles Oakley (or James Johnson, who would kill Charles Oakley), but he's a damned sight tougher than Bill Laimbeer
Agreed that Oakley would have been a better example for a fight. But those cheap shots from laimbier are what i meant as well. And not just from him but from any number of others from that era. As you know it was a brutal league that would not have suffered nut hunters.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:10 PM   #955
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Have you seen the Warriors play basketball?
Did you watch one team blow out Lebron and one team choke? The Spurs put on an offensive and defensive clinic in those finals.

The Spurs avg margin of win in that 5 game series? 18 points. Holy shit.

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Old 05-25-2017, 11:06 PM   #956
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Jordan was able to summon an extra gear unlike anyone I've ever seen. The flu game is probably the greatest example, but even the last minute of play against the Jazz in '98 or the 4th quarter against the Pacers in Game 7 of the ECF that year he was totally shot and he just willed himself to the line. He had reserves of energy I've never seen before.

He and LeBron are different players, though, so an apples-to-apples comparison will never work. LeBron is actually a better outside shooter than Jordan by a fair margin (but to be fair, the 3pt line wasn't introduced into the NBA until Jordan was heading to he UNC, so he didn't grow up with it).

Jordan was a much better mid-range shooter than LeBron. In his second act, he was probably the best mid-range shooter in the game. Jordan was also a better FT shooter (by a fair margin) and a much more creative scorer at the rim capable of the most acrobatic and amazing finishes of any player ever, in large part because aggravated mayhem was allowed in the NBA at that time. LeBron has significantly more power and is as close to unstoppable as anyone in NBA history on the break (better even than Jordan). If the Bad Boy Pistons tried to foul LeBron like that (and he was conditioned not to flop), he'd end up killing guys like Mahorn and Laimbeer, because he is orders of magnitude stronger than them.

Jordan was a superior perimeter defender to LeBron, but he was also aided by having Pippen, who was the greatest perimeter defender who ever lived (and both are probably top-5). Jordan also had quicker hands, but LeBron is much more capable of defending bigs than Jordan due to his size.

LeBron was a better passer with a more natural feel for distribution, but Jordan was exceptionally skilled and extremely underrated at passing. When he had to play point guard at one point (maybe Collins' last year or Phil's first in Chicago), he averaged a triple double for a three week period.

If you told me I had to pick one player to pick to lead a team with my life on the line, I'm picking Jordan. But if you told me I had to pick five players to make a team, I'd take five LeBrons over five Jordans.
Jordan's will to win was pretty intense, he was pretty driven by it. During the 92 Olympics he actually watched tape of the other teams in the tournament even though the US was blowing people out left and right and no other US player did. He said it himself that part of the reason he wanted in on the Olympic team was so that he could study how the other superstars played and come up with ways to beat them later.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:11 PM   #957
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That '98 Jazz team was not that good. In fact, neither was the '97 Jazz team either.

The West was weak at that point. It was before Shaq and Kobe established themselves, before Duncan matured, after Robinson, Hakeem, and Barkley's primes.

The best team the Bulls played in the Finals was the '93 Suns.
It is debatable whether the best finals teams they played were the Suns but lets not overlook the fact the Bulls played tough teams before they got to the finals. They didn't have a cakewalk to the finals every year like LeBron does and like the Warriors have had this year due to injuries.

The best team MJ played when he won his 6-championships IMO was the 1998 Pacers. That team was ridiculously deep from top-to-bottom and came very close to beating the Bulls. The 1992 Knicks are also being overlooked here, they took the Bulls to 7-games as well and were well-coached by Pat Rilely.

I disagree when you say the Jazz were not a good team. Malone-and-Stockton is the best PG-PF combo of all-time. Both clear cut HOFers and Malone is arguably the best PF of all-time. Certainly the best scoring PF and he won the MVP in 1997 over MJ. Stockton was a top 5 PG. Both were good defenders too.

The Jazz had great chemistry. Stockton-to-Malone was very very hard to defend.

I don't think the Bulls would have a problem with the 73-9 Warriors. If the Warriors got taken to 7-games by the 55-27 Thunder and blew a 3-1 lead to the Cavs I don't think they'd be able to beat the Bulls. Maybe a 6-game series. Warriors were great in the regular season (obviously) but their playoff bball, when teams try harder and shorten their lineups, was far from impressive.

The teams that gave the Bulls the most problems usually had really good big-men and were extremely physical. Warriors don't have that. They are a bunch of skinny jump-shooters for the most part. Bulls D w Pip and MJ would give them a lot of problems. You could put Pippen on Curry for large stretches of the gm and MJ could guard Klay Thompson. It's just a bad matchup for the Warriors.

Plus The Warriors wouldn't be able to stop MJ especially wout/ handchecks (assuming they play under the current NBA's rules) and if they play'd with in MJs time-rules it'd be just as bad since you'd see the Bulls use a lot of physical D against the Warriors.

I'd say Bulls in 6-games against those Warriors. It's impossible to say for sure since they both play in different eras with different rules but saying that LeBron beat a better team than MJ ever faced in the playoffs is misleading. No doubt in my mind those MJ championship teams could and probably would beat those Warriors.

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Old 05-26-2017, 06:10 AM   #958
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The 91-92 Trailblazers team Jordan faced was a damn good team as well.
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:24 AM   #959
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The Celtics got blown out all 3 games at home and showed no real effort in any of them. It wouldn't surprise if Stevens isn't fired, he was already on the hot seat. Very good X's and O's guy but can't seem to motivate anybody.
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:07 AM   #960
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The 91-92 Trailblazers team Jordan faced was a damn good team as well.
Drexler, Porter, and Robinson was a hell of a 1-2-3 punch. Also had quality bigs.
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