Chiefs Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block - Page 5

Direckshun · 09-09-2014, 11:02 AM

It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season.

Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want.

But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend.

With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path.

He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year).

We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be.

The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant.

Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here.

I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will.

I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way.

That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him.

This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 09-09-2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Never too early!

Cut the head off before Arrowhead goes black again!

I agree with that. You have to be proactive running a team this bad. There isn't time for errors. I think I would put him on the hotseat now, but would probably give him one more draft and off season before pulling the trigger. 3 years is reasonable. That's just me.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-09-2014, 12:37 PM

Uh, can we put Reid's fat ****ing neck on the block too? You DO KNOW that his man-love of fatties was the cause for Fissure, yes? YES?

chuxtrux · 09-09-2014, 12:52 PM

1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!!

Discuss Thrower · 09-09-2014, 12:53 PM

The Hunt family is the root of the problem.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 09-09-2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuxtrux

1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!!

jd1020 · 09-09-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuxtrux

1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!!

Teams make improvements in their W-L record all the time. That doesn't mean they are actually an improved team.

warrior · 09-09-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I've already chopped it off.

Dorsey is worse than Pioli, imo.

They are/were both horrible at evaluating talent. They both draft like shit. They both threw some mediocre QB on the pedestal and paid him a ridiculous amount of money. But Pioli was actually decent with the money side of the operation, Dorsey is just a complete moron. He has yet to sign anyone to a contract where you can sit back and say "well that makes sense!"

May be the first time I've agreed with you little tractor but your spot on with Dorkey he's terriable at evaluating talent.

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I've already chopped it off.

Dorsey is worse than Pioli, imo.

They are/were both horrible at evaluating talent. They both draft like shit. They both threw some mediocre QB on the pedestal and paid him a ridiculous amount of money. But Pioli was actually decent with the money side of the operation, Dorsey is just a complete moron. He has yet to sign anyone to a contract where you can sit back and say "well that makes sense!"

Jamaal Charles.

And they aren't paying Alex Smith a ridiculous amount of money.

InChiefsHeaven · 09-09-2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuxtrux

1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!!

It's not that we lost...it's that we looked inept as hell.

The QB we just signed looked terrible.

The offensive line we just patched together looked terrible.

The idiot #1 wideout got busted and had to sit the game.

The DB's were underwhelming to say the least.

The Best RB in the league may as well have been eating friggin' nachos

The coach admits to "negligence" when it came to the idiotic gameplan. The same coach who has years of experience in the league and is going to save us from embarassing losses.

I could have lived with a last minute field goal loss, one where Alex had thrown for 220 yards and 1 td, since we were missing Bowe and our OLine is suspect. But THIS??

I'm not saying throw out the baby with the bathwater. But that baby is looking less and less like me...I think I might have been fooled somewhere along the line...

jd1020 · 09-09-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

And they aren't paying Alex Smith a ridiculous amount of money.

The **** they aren't.

Red Dawg · 09-09-2014, 01:07 PM

Personally we should hope to have the same coach and manager for many years and let them build. All the teams that have long standing success in the league stick to the men they hire and let them work instead of turning over their staff and roster every few years. I am no lover of what has been so far with the exception of a few moves but by no means is dumping them a good idea yet. That would a Raider, Brown or Jax type move. This is the sacrifice season that normally would have been done in year one. Money and all our picks should make a large difference in 2015. Just so its not a shock. Hali will be dumped to pay Houston.

Let them assemble their roster.

Chief Roundup · 09-09-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

The **** they aren't.

You think that 4.6 mil this year, 15.6 mil next year, and 17.8 mil in 2016 after which we could release him and save money is paying too much for Smith?

Let me guess you think the 4.6 mil this year is too much.

Discuss Thrower · 09-09-2014, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

You think that 4.6 mil this year, 15.6 mil next year, and 17.8 mil in 2016 after which we could release him and save money is paying too much for Smith?

For a guy that needs pro bowlers at receiver for him to be effective, abso-****ing-lutely KC overpaid for the guy.

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 01:10 PM

They can cut Smith after this year and while it costs 14.4 million in cash, it actually saves money on the cap.

Your argument is invalid. Alex Smith's contract is not preventing the Chiefs from making roster moves nor have they shown an unwillingness to give him competition. That alone distinguishes Dorsey from Pioli.

Eleazar · 09-09-2014, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

For a guy that needs pro bowlers at receiver for him to be effective, abso-****ing-lutely KC overpaid for the guy.

He was effective last season with the same group.

09-09-2014, 11:02 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4403447	Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season. Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want. But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend. With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path. He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year). We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be. The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant. Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here. I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will. I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way. That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him. This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.
Posts: 59,258

09-09-2014, 12:37 PM	#62
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Uh, can we put Reid's fat **ing neck on the block too? You DO KNOW that his man-love of fatties was the cause for Fissure, yes? YES? __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135

09-09-2014, 12:52 PM	#63
chuxtrux Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grbacs basement Casino cash: $10004990	1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!!
Posts: 473

09-09-2014, 12:53 PM	#64
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $3256869	The Hunt family is the root of the problem. __________________ Chiefs 2016 Opponents: Home: JAX, TEN, NO, TB, NYJ. Away: HOU, IND, ATL, CAR, PIT Chiefs 2017 Opponents: Home: BUF, MIA, PHI, WSH, AFC North. Away: NE, NYJ, NYG, DAL, AFC South
Posts: 42,683

09-09-2014, 01:07 PM	#71
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4782858	Personally we should hope to have the same coach and manager for many years and let them build. All the teams that have long standing success in the league stick to the men they hire and let them work instead of turning over their staff and roster every few years. I am no lover of what has been so far with the exception of a few moves but by no means is dumping them a good idea yet. That would a Raider, Brown or Jax type move. This is the sacrifice season that normally would have been done in year one. Money and all our picks should make a large difference in 2015. Just so its not a shock. Hali will be dumped to pay Houston. Let them assemble their roster. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,361

09-09-2014, 01:10 PM	#74
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $4776250	They can cut Smith after this year and while it costs 14.4 million in cash, it actually saves money on the cap. Your argument is invalid. Alex Smith's contract is not preventing the Chiefs from making roster moves nor have they shown an unwillingness to give him competition. That alone distinguishes Dorsey from Pioli.
Posts: 12,517