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Old 08-17-2013, 11:01 AM  
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is offline
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Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

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http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2...s-not-genetic/

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Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated.

“No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other.

“These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

“Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

“Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

“Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:31 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Nagging during football bad enough to turn someone gay? I've heard some nagging in my life, but I don't think a nag level that high can possibly exist.
Because he used the word "bird," I pictured an Englishman and that kind of football. The Englishman makes it somehow easier to imagine.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:34 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
I haven't noticed any "need" to help gay people get jobs. Most hay people I know are gainfully employed and quite successful.
You hang around the homeless shelters taking polls about sexuality much?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:35 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Because he used the word "bird," I pictured an Englishman and that kind of football. The Englishman makes it somehow easier to imagine.
Well, that is true. Good point.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:35 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
You're the one that's trying to change the definition of equal, not me.
Not at all. You are using incredibly twisted logic in order to justify your dislike of gay people.

All I see from the anti-gay marriage people are the same ol' same ol' disingenuous conservative arguments:

1. A gay man can marry a woman like everyone else!! that is the same!!!! blah, blah, blah. It is NOT the same. Being allowed to marry someone you don't want to marry while not be allowed to marry the one you love is NOT the same.

2. If we allow gays to marry then we will have to let people marry (insert whatever ridiculous shit you want - children, dogs, turtles, etc.). None of these are rational, since none of these can give legal consent.

You guys need to just admit you don't like gay people, don't approve of homosexuality, and that is why you are against gay marriage and gay rights, instead of making these ridiculous arguments.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In some cases, children are more capable of consent than adults. We just created a legal definition saying that they can't. It's pretty obvious that there are some 15 year olds, for example, that are more mature and capable of making their own decisions than some 19 year olds. So it's not a disingenuous argument, you're just hiding behind our legal traditions.
Regardless, society has passed laws saying minors can't consent. Your argument is without merit.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How do you account for the examples he gave of people making a choice? Are they all gay but at various times during their lives they tried to go straight because of societal pressure and the difficulties of living a gay lifestyle?
Yes. That is what I believe.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:40 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Not at all. You are using incredibly twisted logic in order to justify your dislike of gay people.

All I see from the anti-gay marriage people are the same ol' same ol' disingenuous conservative arguments:

1. A gay man can marry a woman like everyone else!! that is the same!!!! blah, blah, blah. It is NOT the same. Being allowed to marry someone you don't ant to marry while not be allowed to marry the one you love is NOT the same.
Yeah. It's the same.

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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
2. If we allow gays to marry then we will have to let people marry (insert whatever ridiculous shit you want - children, dogs, turtles, etc.). None of these are rational, since none of these can give legal consent.

You guys need to just admit you don't like gay people, don't approve of homosexuality, and that is why you are against gay marriage and gay rights, instead of making these ridiculous arguments.
Don't get hysterical, Bruce. I support your right to marry any fruit that can suffer your bullshit. I'm not worried at all that I'll be asked next to bless the special relationship Clem has with his livestock.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:41 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Not at all. You are using incredibly twisted logic in order to justify your dislike of gay people.
You think he dislikes gay people? Don't you read his posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
All I see from the anti-gay marriage people are the same ol' same ol' disingenuous conservative arguments:

1. A gay man can marry a woman like everyone else!! that is the same!!!! blah, blah, blah. It is NOT the same. Being allowed to marry someone you don't want to marry while not be allowed to marry the one you love is NOT the same.

2. If we allow gays to marry then we will have to let people marry (insert whatever ridiculous shit you want - children, dogs, turtles, etc.). None of these are rational, since none of these can give legal consent.

You guys need to just admit you don't like gay people, don't approve of homosexuality, and that is why you are against gay marriage and gay rights, instead of making these ridiculous arguments.
I guess you don't. You are clearly prejudiced.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:42 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Nagging during football bad enough to turn someone gay? I've heard some nagging in my life, but I don't think a nag level that high can possibly exist.
You know what I was getting at, some guy who's ambivalent, girls seem nice, guys seem nice. But with boys when the romantic aspects are over [from dates to sex], they get to hang out and do guy stuff. Certainly males and females can be unattractive in a nonsexual/nonromantic way.

Certainly a lot of bears say just being able to hang out with bros, then start in with the sucky ****y when the mood hits is a part of their attractive to that life.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:44 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Yes. That is what I believe.
Well, I guess that makes your theory pretty unassailable.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:47 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Not at all. You are using incredibly twisted logic in order to justify your dislike of gay people.

All I see from the anti-gay marriage people are the same ol' same ol' disingenuous conservative arguments:

1. A gay man can marry a woman like everyone else!! that is the same!!!! blah, blah, blah. It is NOT the same. Being allowed to marry someone you don't want to marry while not be allowed to marry the one you love is NOT the same.

2. If we allow gays to marry then we will have to let people marry (insert whatever ridiculous shit you want - children, dogs, turtles, etc.). None of these are rational, since none of these can give legal consent.

You guys need to just admit you don't like gay people, don't approve of homosexuality, and that is why you are against gay marriage and gay rights, instead of making these ridiculous arguments.
That's only to refute the equal rights claim. Rights are equal 1 man can marry 1 woman and vice versa.

The guy SPECIFICALLY said he SUPPORTED an acceptance based allowance of gay marriage.

Seems like saying you support gay marriage because it's the right thing to do is less bigoted than saying we must whether we like it or not because legal precepts demand it.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:47 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Sorry, thought the question was 'why would ANY'
Just saying. Every gay adult was one a gay child
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:50 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Depends on what you mean by different and what you mean by the same.

With or without legal same sex marriage, a gay man is legally eligible to marry any person that a heterosexual man is eligible to marry. That's equal treatment. Outlawing gay marriage does not make the situation unequal. Legalizing gay marriage does nothing to make the situation more equal. In either case all are treated exactly equally.

I support same sex marriage as well, but unlike you I don't lie about what I'm advocating. I support a new, different kind of marriage that has nothing to do with equality, but has more to do with acceptance.
Not true. A heterosexual is eligible to marry the person they love, a gay man is not.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:50 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Regardless, society has passed laws saying minors can't consent. Your argument is without merit.
so here societal mores TRUMP equal rights?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:50 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
Not true. A heterosexual is eligible to marry the person they love, a gay man is not.
We're talking about the law, not poetry.
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