Mizzou Basketball - Page 434

**Saul Good** · 09:06 PM

MIZ-ZOU

Brock · 03-26-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

but, you have to remember that for QBs, super bowls are the only real number that counts.

Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Fran Tarkenton would like a word with you.

**Baby Lee** · 03-26-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

love to see where you're getting your stats

To be fair, the stats are from memory from NFL channel retrospectives on his career. But I'm fairly sure the ones I cited are accurate as they've stuck in my mind since I first heard them.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Fran Tarkenton would like a word with you.

all of whom had the overwhelming stats that couldn't be ignored (aside from jim kelly, who had good to great numbers and led his team to four super bowls in a row)

did you have a point? are you telling me that the QBs listed wouldn't have had better resumes with a super bowl in AND their numbers? QB is a leadership position moreso than any other position, kind of like pitchers and win/loss record. it doesn't directly correlate, but it's easier for hall-of-fame voters to forgive slightly inferior numbers/seasons if a guy led his team to multiple championships. ben roethlisberger doesn't have AMAZING numbers, but he has a few super bowl wins. he's an automatic hall of famer as a result. take away his two championships, and he's borderline.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

To be fair, the stats are from memory from NFL channel retrospectives on his career. But I'm fairly sure the ones I cited are accurate as they've stuck in my mind since I first heard them.

eh, they were close to the ones that I found. I have no issue with your stats, really, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Brock · 03-26-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

all of whom had the overwhelming stats that couldn't be ignored (aside from jim kelly, who had good to great numbers and led his team to four super bowls in a row)

did you have a point? are you telling me that the QBs listed wouldn't have had better resumes with a super bowl in AND their numbers? QB is a leadership position moreso than any other position, kind of like pitchers and win/loss record. it doesn't directly correlate, but it's easier for hall-of-fame voters to forgive slightly inferior numbers/seasons if a guy led his team to multiple championships. ben roethlisberger doesn't have AMAZING numbers, but he has a few super bowl wins. he's an automatic hall of famer as a result. take away his two championships, and he's borderline.

The point seems pretty obvious to me, super bowls aren't the only thing that matters, which was the statement I responded to. If Manning, Favre, et. al., never won a super bowl they'd still be hall of famers, and it wouldn't be a close call.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

The point seems pretty obvious to me, super bowls aren't the only thing that matters, which was the statement I responded to. If Manning, Favre, et. al., never won a super bowl they'd still be hall of famers, and it wouldn't be a close call.

point taken, maybe I was being too absolute, but they're a hell of a boost. the point with ben roethlisberger stands. I'd almost guarantee he's a hall-of-famer regardless of the rest of his career, and it's all due to his two super bowl wins.

I should point out, though, that your selections are kind of outliers--they have AMAZING stats. take away 1/3 of their yards/touchdowns, and you're in a position where they'd need a super-bowl (or post-season success ala jim kelly) in order to make the hall-of-fame.

KCinNY · 03-26-2012, 08:00 PM

Has Jim Plunkett ever been up for the HOF? The guy won 2 rings and was SB MVP in XV if I recall. How about Tom Flores? Coached 2 SB winners and is never mentioned in the great coach debates.

Don't mean to sound like a Raiders homer but those guys have as much reason to bitch about their HOF status as anyone.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCinNY

Has Jim Plunkett ever been up for the HOF? The guy won 2 rings and was SB MVP in XV if I recall. How about Tom Flores? Coached 2 SB winners and is never mentioned in the great coach debates.

Don't mean to sound like a Raiders homer but those guys have as much reason to bitch about their HOF status as anyone.

here are jim plunkett's composite stats per wiki:

TD-INT 164-198
Yards 25,882
QB Rating 67.5

despite the super-bowl wins, his numbers aren't good enough. he had a 15 year career for crying out loud, he averaged around 1700 yards per year, maybe 11 touchdowns and 13.3 interceptions. that, on some loaded raiders teams (where he won his super bowls). despite this, there are more than a few people who consider him a hall-of-fame QB. don't ask me, I'm not one of them.

Brock · 03-26-2012, 08:10 PM

Raider fans think he's worthy. He isn't.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 08:13 PM

I think what this tells us that brock is right, it's not ONLY super bowls. however, super bowls (and playoff success) can be the needed boost to get you into the HOF if you have decent to good numbers. you COULD, however, have amazing numbers (warren moon, dan marino, fran tarkenton) and make the HOF without that super bowl.

Brock · 03-26-2012, 08:23 PM

There are at least a few QBs that probably wouldn't be in the HOF without a championship on their resume. The utterly nauseating Joe Namath for example.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

There are at least a few QBs that probably wouldn't be in the HOF without a championship on their resume. The utterly nauseating Joe Namath for example.

yep. ever seen his numbers en total? ****ing abysmal.

**KcMizzou** · 03-26-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

yep. ever seen his numbers en total? ****ing abysmal.

He's always annoyed me, because if not for that asshole, the Chiefs would have been the first AFL team to win it all in the NFL.

Ebolapox · 03-26-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KcMizzou

He's always annoyed me, because if not for that asshole, the Chiefs would have been the first AFL team to win it all in the NFL.

just because I'm that asshole, I'll one-up you. maybe if lenny dawson hadn't thrown that interception to start the second half in the first super bowl, we may have been the first AFL team to win it all against an NFL team.

KCinNY · 03-26-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Raider fans think he's worthy. He isn't.

I have a couple of Raider fan friends and they pine more for Stabler getting in the HOF than Plunkett.

Plunkett's career numbers look like shit...that's true...although I'm sure the worst numbers came from New England and San Francisco where he was a kid being thrown to the wolves with no supporting cast.

02-02-2012, 07:18 PM
Saul Good Quit your bullshit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bored of winning Casino cash: $10052799	Mizzou Basketball MIZ-ZOU Last edited by Saul Good; 03-11-2012 at 09:06 PM..
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03-26-2012, 08:00 PM	#6502
KCinNY Chiefs Goon Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Center Ice Casino cash: $10008350	Has Jim Plunkett ever been up for the HOF? The guy won 2 rings and was SB MVP in XV if I recall. How about Tom Flores? Coached 2 SB winners and is never mentioned in the great coach debates. Don't mean to sound like a Raiders homer but those guys have as much reason to bitch about their HOF status as anyone. __________________ We must sacrifice the one they call "True Fan."
Posts: 1,497

03-26-2012, 08:10 PM	#6504
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Raider fans think he's worthy. He isn't.
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03-26-2012, 08:13 PM	#6505
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $2169903	I think what this tells us that brock is right, it's not ONLY super bowls. however, super bowls (and playoff success) can be the needed boost to get you into the HOF if you have decent to good numbers. you COULD, however, have amazing numbers (warren moon, dan marino, fran tarkenton) and make the HOF without that super bowl.
Posts: 26,427

03-26-2012, 08:23 PM	#6506
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	There are at least a few QBs that probably wouldn't be in the HOF without a championship on their resume. The utterly nauseating Joe Namath for example.
Posts: 47,314