***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

• 2011 World Series Championship
• 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
• 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
• 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
• 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There is absolutely no way the pitching staff will get anywhere near the results of the 2015 staff just due to regression.

For this team to improve the younger players need to make substantial improvements on offense while Holliday and Molina mitigate their decline.

Also, Matt Adams can have an ascending aortic aneurysm, but not until I get to watch.

[brucey_72]

Why is he mentally soft? What does he do? As a Cubs fan, nice to get information about a guy.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There is absolutely no way the pitching staff will get anywhere near the results of the 2015 staff just due to regression.

For this team to improve the younger players need to make substantial improvements on offense while Holliday and Molina mitigate their decline.

Also, Matt Adams can have an ascending aortic aneurysm, but not until I get to watch.

It is all based on potential, nothing certain. When you either had Carpenter or Waino, you knew you had a top of the rotation starter, with Pujols, Edmonds, etc., middle of the order bats with expected production.

Holliday and I suppose Carpenter are those now, but to a much lesser extent. Waino is projecting like #3 stuff at best right now, Wacha worries me, I think he is more middle of the rotation (which was really what he was predicted to be and just exceeded by rising so fast) guy. Martinez still has the best stuff, but until I see a full season it is just potential. Leake is Suppan 2.0, Garcia, who knows, one day he is Fernando, the next Dave LaPoint.

I like Grichuk, Piscotty and Pham as prospects, it be a whole lot more exciting if we had another proven bat.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by brucey_72

Why is he mentally soft? What does he do? As a Cubs fan, nice to get information about a guy.

Outside perspective on Heyward. He looks like he should be a big bat guy but he just isn't. He replaced a player that Cardinal fans thought was going to be a legit big bat superstar. Heyward, could be that potentially, but is a younger version of Alex Gordon. Real steady numbers but nothing that just pops out at you. For the Cubs he will fit in nicely. Just replacing Tarvaes and now signing with the Cubs, it just was something that Heyward & the Cards fans fit together to well.

[brucey_72]

Ok thank you.. as an outsider he looks like a solid player. He will not be needed to be a star in Chicago

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by brucey_72

Why is he mentally soft? What does he do? As a Cubs fan, nice to get information about a guy.

He doesn't have any confidence in himself at all. He's a mad tinkerer and any time he has a bad week, he goes back to dicking with his swing and it sets him into a month long slump.

He always always ALWAYS has someone/something to blame for his under-performance. His thumb, his appendix, being moved to the 2 hole, being moved to the 5 hole, his coaching, the expectations in ATL, their unwillingness to extend him, on and on and on. Heyward ALWAYS had an explanation for why he wasn't playing well and it never seemed to involve legitimate introspection. Then he up and did it again this year when he signed with the Cubs and groused about being asked to be the man in STL and cited being a complementary player in Chicago as a primary motivation.

Albert Pujols to this day bitches about being compared to Mike Trout despite being nowhere near the player Trout is because he's a legitimate alpha-male. Bryce Harper just came out in an interview and said he's the best player in baseball and you'd never hear him say anyone is better than him. Chris Carpenter once ate a baby on the mound. Incredible players believe they're the best and they will take your soul from you.

Beta males like Jason Heyward bitch about their spot in the batting order and celebrate being asked less of.

I've never been more disappointed in a player than I was in Heyward. I wanted the guy to be a Cardinal and was absolutely certain he'd unlock the potential he showed as a rookie. Then he absolutely showed me why the Braves didn't want to invest long-term in him. He has the soul of a semi-finalist. He's content just being there. He doesn't believe in himself and he doesn't have the fire that the greats have.

His role is exactly what he is now - a remarkably well compensated role-player.

[brucey_72]

Thank you for the great information. Kind of makes me less excited about Heyward if that is the case. Thank God for the big 3 we have in Chicago.

Why would a player not want to be a key player?? Shouldn't a player want to be the best?

How is his defense? I have always thought he was a good defender but don't watch a whole lot of the Cards since they play the same time as Chicago a lot

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by brucey_72

Thank you for the great information. Kind of makes me less excited about Heyward if that is the case. Thank God for the big 3 we have in Chicago.

Why would a player not want to be a key player?? Shouldn't a player want to be the best?

How is his defense? I have always thought he was a good defender but don't watch a whole lot of the Cards since they play the same time as Chicago a lot

Honestly, there are far better, less biased, ways of getting information on Heyward on the internet. You are in Cardinals thread asking what they think about a player that played one season on the team and took a huge dump on the makeup of the team on his way out the door.

[brucey_72]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Honestly, there are far better, less biased, ways of getting information on Heyward on the internet. You are in Cardinals thread asking what they think about a player that played one season on the team and took a huge dump on the makeup of the team on his way out the door.

Idk I like the bias opinions.. fans of the team a player plays for has a lot of good information

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Honestly, there are far better, less biased, ways of getting information on Heyward on the internet. You are in Cardinals thread asking what they think about a player that played one season on the team and took a huge dump on the makeup of the team on his way out the door.

Heyward is not the guy. He's the guy that gets on base for the guy.

With the Cubs, that's fine. They are so rich with position player talent that he can settle in as the fourth or fifth best bat on the team. But he will never be a guy who can carry an offense.

The Cardinals needed someone who would carry an offense. They offered him a contract in accordance with that expectation. He took less money to be a supporting piece. Honestly, it was probably a better decision for his mental health, because he isn't the type who wants to deal with that pressure cooker.

If you want a cross sports comparison, he's Dwight Howard.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by brucey_72

Idk I like the bias opinions.. fans of the team a player plays for has a lot of good information

Biased information is not good information.

Heyward had arguably the 2nd best season of his career in StL, where he only played for 1 season. Defensively he is what Jorge Soler aspires to be but will never become because Soler very rarely hustles and has about the same ability to judge the trajectory of a baseball as a blind man. However, if you were to take the opinion of most Cardinals fans you'd get a majority of PGM's who think he's the worst player to grace the sport.

[brucey_72]

I know it is entertaining. I still love signing Heyward. i am going to use the information to change my opinion just nice to see what people think

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

But he will never be a guy who can carry an offense.

This is where I disagree. He has shown the ability to be a guy that could potentially carry an offense. Whether or not he does is another discussion all together, but he got paid based on age and based on the fact he has shown to be that guy.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by jd1020

This is where I disagree. He has shown the ability to be a guy that could potentially carry an offense. Whether or not he does is another discussion all together, but he got paid based on age and based on the fact he has shown to be that guy.

And a ridiculous opt-out clause. Time will tell if this is Big Papi or Carl Crawford.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by jd1020

This is where I disagree. He has shown the ability to be a guy that could potentially carry an offense. Whether or not he does is another discussion all together, but he got paid based on age and based on the fact he has shown to be that guy.

He has a career wRC+ of 118, and that factors in his baserunning. His career is basically 2015 Adam Eaton. Do you think 2015 Adam Eaton can carry an offense?