Nat'l Security Black Boxes in 96% of new cars - Page 2

BIG_DADDY · 07-22-2013, 01:18 PM

How many times over the last few years have we had to put with posters making fun of others for fearing government intrusiveness? Something about black helicopters and tinfoil hats I believe. Now you can't have a conversation on a phone without being tracked and recorded. You can't go online without being put in a database and you can't even drive without having every single thing you do recorded.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...s-edr/1566098/

Editorial: 'Black boxes' are in 96% of new cars

6:37 p.m. EST January 6, 2013

And you don't necessarily own what yours record.

If you happen to read every word of your new car owner's manual, then you already know that your car may be monitoring your driving habits.

If you're like most people on the planet, though, it will come as a surprise that a box the size of a deck of cards — called an event data recorder — is on board, tracking your seat belt use, speed, steering, braking and at least a dozen other bits of data. When your air bag deploys, the EDR's memory records a few seconds before, during and after a crash, much like an airliner's "black box."

NHTSA: EDRs help keep roads safe

This a handy tool for analyzing the cause and effect of crashes. It can be used to improve safety technology. But its presence is not entirely benign. The data have many other potential uses — for insurance companies, lawyers and police, for instance — and it's up for grabs.

The EDR is the only part of your car that you don't necessarily own. Just 13 states have laws on the issue, and fewer — Oregon and North Dakota, for example — offer strong privacy protection. The devices, part of a car's electronic system, are almost impossible to remove.

Last month, the federal government proposed that all new passenger vehicles be equipped with the devices. But 96% of new cars already have them, as do at least 150 million older vehicles. American makers, led by GM and Ford, have been putting them in cars since the mid-1990s.

What the federal government ought to do is ensure that car buyers get prominent disclosure before they buy and that privacy protections are in place. But the trend is in the opposite direction.

In 2006, when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration first proposed regulating black boxes, it rejected calls for pre-purchase disclosure and opted for requiring a few obscure paragraphs in the owner's manual. It gave car makers six years to comply.

The agency says it has no authority to regulate privacy. But it has not sought any, nor alerted Congress to the need for legislation.

The chaotic results are apparent in courts and in high-profile crashes. In a 2011 crash, Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray, who said he was belted in and driving the speed limit, was contradicted by an EDR. The government-owned Ford Crown Victoria's recorder found that the car was traveling more than 100 mph and that Murray wasn't belted in.

OK, so comeuppance for a politician doesn't sound so bad. But what about your own car? Should police be able to grab that data without a warrant? Should insurers access it so they can raise your rates?

Courts are all over the place. Two New York courts have ruled warrants are not needed. Many prosecutors, not surprisingly, argue that drivers have no expectation of privacy on public roads.

In California, an appeals court tossed out a drunken-driving manslaughter conviction because police failed to get a warrant for the box.

Proponents of black boxes argue that they aren't all that intrusive. Maybe so, today. But technology never stands still. GPS in cellphones was originally advanced as a safety feature so callers to 9-1-1 could be quickly located. But location identification is now used in all sorts of third-party apps. People's movements are easily tracked. It wouldn't take much to tweak EDRs for equally broad uses. They could record more. Some insurers are offering customers a cousin of the EDR, which tracks how a car is driven over a long period, so volunteer participants may qualify for lower rates.

Two things are certain. Black boxes are here to stay. And without strict rules of the road, they are less a boon to safety than an intrusive hitchhiker.

Brock · 07-22-2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

It wasn't at 96% 10 years ago, not even close.

I sure hope they don't do this to motorcycles.

Worries about black boxes in cars. Carries a smart phone.

**CrazyPhuD** · 07-22-2013, 04:57 PM

Black boxes exist in 100% of new smart phones. Which is worse? having a limited view of what speed you were going, or knowing exactly where your phone has been for the last 6 months?

Bigger fish to fry and this is one of the easier ones to beat!

Fish · 07-22-2013, 09:01 PM

I heard the black boxes also caused autism......

go bo · 07-22-2013, 09:06 PM

i was very fond of black box, er black boxes when i was in school...

KChiefer · 07-22-2013, 09:13 PM

They better not record what goes on in the back of my car, wink wink, nudge nudge.

**007** · 07-23-2013, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefer

They better not record what goes on in the back of my car, wink wink, nudge nudge.

So a whole lot of nothing eh?

-King- · 07-23-2013, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Worries about black boxes in cars. Carries a smart phone.

BIG_DADDY · 07-23-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Worries about black boxes in cars. Carries a smart phone.

I think I was pretty clear that this was just another item on a long laundry list of government intrusiveness that has been taking place for some time now My main issue is with those that that act like none of it matters and makes fun of those that do. People like you for the most part.

mr. tegu · 07-23-2013, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I think I was pretty clear that this was just another item on a long laundry list of government intrusiveness that has been taking place for some time now My main issue is with those that that act like none of it matters and makes fun of those that do. People like you for the most part.

Care to explain the connection?

BIG_DADDY · 07-23-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Care to explain the connection?

In-car black box legislation is still on track to begin September 1st of this year. It will be standardized and regulated.

BucEyedPea · 07-23-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefer

They better not record what goes on in the back of my car, wink wink, nudge nudge.

So we'll know you use Viagra?

Brock · 07-23-2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I think I was pretty clear that this was just another item on a long laundry list of government intrusiveness that has been taking place for some time now My main issue is with those that that act like none of it matters and makes fun of those that do. People like you for the most part.

I make fun of you for lots of reasons. Like the fact you aren't very bright, for example.

BIG_DADDY · 07-23-2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

I make fun of you for lots of reasons. Like the fact you aren't very bright, for example.

All you really did was not make sense, but if that makes you laugh.

|Zach| · 07-23-2013, 12:42 PM

I bet someone right now at the NSA is like god damn that Zachary guy in KC is a great driver.

Brock · 07-23-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

All you really did was not make sense, but if that makes you laugh.

I can understand why I don't make sense to you. Maybe we can get Jenny McCarthy to explain it to you.

07-22-2013, 01:18 PM
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: San Mateo, CA 94401 Casino cash: $8510	Black Boxes in 96% of new cars How many times over the last few years have we had to put with posters making fun of others for fearing government intrusiveness? Something about black helicopters and tinfoil hats I believe. Now you can't have a conversation on a phone without being tracked and recorded. You can't go online without being put in a database and you can't even drive without having every single thing you do recorded. http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...s-edr/1566098/ Editorial: 'Black boxes' are in 96% of new cars 6:37 p.m. EST January 6, 2013 And you don't necessarily own what yours record. If you happen to read every word of your new car owner's manual, then you already know that your car may be monitoring your driving habits. If you're like most people on the planet, though, it will come as a surprise that a box the size of a deck of cards — called an event data recorder — is on board, tracking your seat belt use, speed, steering, braking and at least a dozen other bits of data. When your air bag deploys, the EDR's memory records a few seconds before, during and after a crash, much like an airliner's "black box." NHTSA: EDRs help keep roads safe This a handy tool for analyzing the cause and effect of crashes. It can be used to improve safety technology. But its presence is not entirely benign. The data have many other potential uses — for insurance companies, lawyers and police, for instance — and it's up for grabs. The EDR is the only part of your car that you don't necessarily own. Just 13 states have laws on the issue, and fewer — Oregon and North Dakota, for example — offer strong privacy protection. The devices, part of a car's electronic system, are almost impossible to remove. Last month, the federal government proposed that all new passenger vehicles be equipped with the devices. But 96% of new cars already have them, as do at least 150 million older vehicles. American makers, led by GM and Ford, have been putting them in cars since the mid-1990s. What the federal government ought to do is ensure that car buyers get prominent disclosure before they buy and that privacy protections are in place. But the trend is in the opposite direction. In 2006, when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration first proposed regulating black boxes, it rejected calls for pre-purchase disclosure and opted for requiring a few obscure paragraphs in the owner's manual. It gave car makers six years to comply. The agency says it has no authority to regulate privacy. But it has not sought any, nor alerted Congress to the need for legislation. The chaotic results are apparent in courts and in high-profile crashes. In a 2011 crash, Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray, who said he was belted in and driving the speed limit, was contradicted by an EDR. The government-owned Ford Crown Victoria's recorder found that the car was traveling more than 100 mph and that Murray wasn't belted in. OK, so comeuppance for a politician doesn't sound so bad. But what about your own car? Should police be able to grab that data without a warrant? Should insurers access it so they can raise your rates? Courts are all over the place. Two New York courts have ruled warrants are not needed. Many prosecutors, not surprisingly, argue that drivers have no expectation of privacy on public roads. In California, an appeals court tossed out a drunken-driving manslaughter conviction because police failed to get a warrant for the box. Proponents of black boxes argue that they aren't all that intrusive. Maybe so, today. But technology never stands still. GPS in cellphones was originally advanced as a safety feature so callers to 9-1-1 could be quickly located. But location identification is now used in all sorts of third-party apps. People's movements are easily tracked. It wouldn't take much to tweak EDRs for equally broad uses. They could record more. Some insurers are offering customers a cousin of the EDR, which tracks how a car is driven over a long period, so volunteer participants may qualify for lower rates. Two things are certain. Black boxes are here to stay. And without strict rules of the road, they are less a boon to safety than an intrusive hitchhiker.
Posts: 30,808

07-22-2013, 04:57 PM	#17
CrazyPhuD Meow Join Date: Jun 2005 Casino cash: $5150	Black boxes exist in 100% of new smart phones. Which is worse? having a limited view of what speed you were going, or knowing exactly where your phone has been for the last 6 months? Bigger fish to fry and this is one of the easier ones to beat! __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t*rd by the clean end"
Posts: 8,209

07-22-2013, 09:01 PM	#18
Fish Missing Dick Curl Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $29019	I heard the black boxes also caused autism...... __________________
Posts: 35,918

07-22-2013, 09:06 PM	#19
go bo Flop = Man of Steel!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: independence Casino cash: $26505	i was very fond of black box, er black boxes when i was in school...
Posts: 36,669

07-22-2013, 09:13 PM	#20
KChiefer Fantastic Planeteer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Champaign, IL Casino cash: $6821	They better not record what goes on in the back of my car, wink wink, nudge nudge.
Posts: 4,943

07-23-2013, 12:42 PM	#29
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $13868	I bet someone right now at the NSA is like god damn that Zachary guy in KC is a great driver.
Posts: 47,163

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