Career Advice

[Saul Good]

The last month or so, one of my company's competitors has been trying to recruit me away from my current employer. I'm reasonably happy where I am and will hit 5 years of service on March 1st (which means that I will be fully vested).

The new company kept calling, so I decided that I would meet with them and listen to their pitch. After meeting with HR and the office manager, it's pretty clear that they are going to make me an offer. I told the office manager that it was going to cost them more than they were planning on spending in order to get me to switch. He said that he would pressure them to give me what I wanted, but we didn't get to hard numbers yet.

I'm planning on asking for a 20-30% increase over what I currently make. I think they might agree to 20%. Whatever they offer, I am going to take it to my current employer and ask them to match it when my 5 year review comes up next month. If it's 20%+, I doubt they will match it, but they will probably meet me somewhere in between.

My question is this: How much money should I be willing to leave on the table in order to stay where I am? It's basically a lateral move, and there's always the risk/hassle factor associated with switching companies. Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two compaines, how much is it worth to stay where I'm comfortable?

[Chiefs Rool]

I dont know what type of work it is, so it's hard to answer. But if you are happy with your current company and you enjoy working with the people you see everyday and have excellent job security, it would be hard for me to switch to a different company. Sure everything probably sounds great now, but what if you get there and the boss, co-workers, etc turn out to be dicks or some of them. What if job security isn't that great at the new place? I don't think I could switch if I were already happy at my current job.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Chiefs Rool

I dont know what type of work it is, so it's hard to answer. But if you are happy with your current company and you enjoy working with the people you see everyday and have excellent job security, it would be hard for me to switch to a different company. Sure everything probably sounds great now, but what if you get there and the boss, co-workers, etc turn out to be dicks or some of them. What if job security isn't that great at the new place? I don't think I could switch if I were already happy at my current job.

Money must not be an issue for you. It'd take a chunk of change to move me, but I'd do it if the dollars are there.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Money must not be an issue for you. It'd take a chunk of change to move me, but I'd do it if the dollars are there.

I had offers before I took this one. I wanted to wait till my son got out of High School to move.

[Psyko Tek]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

The last month or so, one of my company's competitors has been trying to recruit me away from my current employer. I'm reasonably happy where I am and will hit 5 years of service on March 1st (which means that I will be fully vested).

The new company kept calling, so I decided that I would meet with them and listen to their pitch. After meeting with HR and the office manager, it's pretty clear that they are going to make me an offer. I told the office manager that it was going to cost them more than they were planning on spending in order to get me to switch. He said that he would pressure them to give me what I wanted, but we didn't get to hard numbers yet.

I'm planning on asking for a 20-30% increase over what I currently make. I think they might agree to 20%. Whatever they offer, I am going to take it to my current employer and ask them to match it when my 5 year review comes up next month. If it's 20%+, I doubt they will match it, but they will probably meet me somewhere in between.

My question is this: How much money should I be willing to leave on the table in order to stay where I am? It's basically a lateral move, and there's always the risk/hassle factor associated with switching companies. Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two compaines, how much is it worth to stay where I'm comfortable?

sir,
I was loyal to the company I worked with in the 90's spurning all offers for staying with the company that helped learn the skills mentioned company

I am making half the wages I used to
today, after being laid off from aforementioned company, they sold out and moved
so take what you can
from where you can
do not accept promises
only real money
trust no one with an office or a tie

HR is not your friend

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

So...

I got a call from the recruiter for the new potential employer yesterday. He said that they are interested and will make me an offer. He told me that they need me to fill out a formal application and list what my salary requirements would be. (He knows what that is, but it needs to be official.)

My requirement is significantly higher than what they originally said they were willing to pay. I asked the recruiter if he had told the new company the range that I was looking for. He said that he had. I asked him if he thought that they could get there. He said that he thinks they can. This would be a sizable raise as well as a signing bonus somewhere in the $10K range.

If they agree to my terms or come close enough that it's a legit starting point for a negotiation, I'm going to ask to observe them for a while. I may even try to just give them a window of a couple of days and tell them that I will be stopping in at some point during that period of time. I really want to see what the dynamics are when it's not planned. (I want real life, not a dog and pony show.) If everything seems cool from there, I'm going to take a queue from rageeumr in post 27 and take the offer to my current employer just to show them what my market value is. I won't make demands, but I want to see if they make a play to keep me.

Here's the thing. Most of the people on here seem to be encouraging me to stay where I am. What's more is that most of my friends say the same thing. I understand why people give that advice, but I didn't expect it to be so one-sided in favor of staying where I am while leaving a lot of money on the table.

I'd like to think that everyone else is just a bunch of pussies afraid of sacking up and getting paid and that I know better, but I know that this isn't necessarily the case. I'm going to have to make a decision by the end of March, and I really don't know what I am going to do.

I imagine the reason why people say to stay is because of the current job market. I have considered leaving several times then I think I really don't want to go from the top to the bottom and be the first to get shit canned instead of the last.

[Ralphy Boy]

Went thru the same thing a year ago. Took less money than the 25% increase I was offered elsewhere but still netted a 10% pay increase at a place I'm comfortable and I know they respect me.

Its not all about the money. When I first came to my current employer, I left a place I really liked and was well respected because I thought the grass would be greener. When I got here, I hated it and regretted it for the first few years. I had to start completely over to earn respect from a management team that sucked the big one. Management changes occured (because the old one sucked the big one) and I see eye to eye with the new top dog, who seems to like me better than he does most of my peers.

I took less short term, in favor of what I viewed as a better long term situation. In hindsight it was still a good move, based on what I've heard from a couple of colleagues at the other company.

[Ralphy Boy]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You need to do your due diligence and make the best possible decisions. At least I do, to sleep well at night. But the fact is that almost every one of those decisions is made on limited information at best.

There is still a lot of volatility in the national economic environment. There is lots of news that it is turning around, but be cautious, it's still kind of a bitch out there. My advice is make damn sure the grass is indeed greener and get some sort of reasonable assurance that it will stay greener in the long term before you take on the barb wire fence.

Best advice I've seen, but then I've just glanced at the thread.

Without knowing your industry, I'd ask everyone you can confide in about anything and everything they know about the company. I'd talk to everyone on their management team at length if I could and be as specifc as possible about the profitability of the company. 2010 earnings compared to prior years, forecast for the next few years, biggest customer and understand the ownership. If junior is getting ready to take over for daddy or daddy's gonna croke and the family might sell....
BBB filings, industry data, product line, market share.

In this environment a lot of companies are a few sales away from broke. If their top customer goes down, what happens to their bottom line?

Then if your current employer tries to get you to stay, I'd ask the same questions of them and weigh your options.

Look at it like you are the bank and they are asking you for money. Your time, experience and lost opportunity are incredibly valuable to you so make both of them earn it. The questions you ask might actually impress and improve your opportunity with both of them.

[Jenson71]

Career Advice:

I want to counter-offer with their offer plus health insurance costs that I've researched. They don't offer health insurance. In my counter, is it wise to point out how I'm coming to that salary? I can think of one pro and one con:

Pro: It shows my offer is not arbitrary.
Con: They might look and say, "We told you we don't offer health insurance. Now you're asking for us to cover your health insurance."

[Buehler445]

I'd agree to their terms but ask for a stipend or some sort of compensation for health insurance.

If they don't have a group plan, they won't get one just for you. If they cover part of the cost, it gives them another point to negotiate. They may give you a flat amount or a portion of the cost.

Don't be to sticky about it. Some companies can't negotiate.

[Jenson71]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'd agree to their terms but ask for a stipend or some sort of compensation for health insurance.

If they don't have a group plan, they won't get one just for you. If they cover part of the cost, it gives them another point to negotiate. They may give you a flat amount or a portion of the cost.

Don't be to sticky about it. Some companies can't negotiate.

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

[qabbaan]

What kind of company is this? Size? Corporate?

The reason I ask is that most companies have pretty well defined salary ranges these days around job titles, and they may not often bend the rules around those ranges. You might be able to negotiate yourself to the top of the salary range for the mid level position, but then you won't leave yourself room for growth in coming years without a title promotion. In some places it's hard to get a promotion to a senior level within a couple of years of coming on board.

Getting hired in at the higher title also helps you in the future if you change jobs or the company goes under or you are laid off. Having a senior title on your last position qualifies you for the same, arguing that you were highly paid for a mid level guy is not as easy of a case... They would say, well, this is the limit of our range for a mid level salesman/analyst/tech/whatever.

[qabbaan]

Oh, sorry. I was responding to the OP

[Jenson71]

I try to avoid starting new threads if I can do it. I figured this thread had enough experienced people to bump it.

[qabbaan]

Originally Posted by Literature

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

I wouldn't raise the health insurance issue. Just give them your salary demand and if they can't meet it they can't.

Implied in asking them to cover insurance costs this year is that you are going to expect them to continue covering your approximate costs, but insurance is going to go up, life changes could happen, etc.

Your finances aren't their recruiter's concern, just follow the process.

[Jenson71]

Originally Posted by qabbaan

I wouldn't raise the health insurance issue. Just give them your salary demand and if they can't meet it they can't.

Implied in asking them to cover insurance costs this year is that you are going to expect them to continue covering your approximate costs, but insurance is going to go up, life changes could happen, etc.

Your finances aren't their recruiter's concern, just follow the process.

I agree with you here.