Chiefs Alex Smith Traded to Chiefs - Page 367

Deberg_1990 · 02-27-2013, 10:59 AM

Well, it looks like the deal is done.

https://twitter.com/intent/user?scre...w_p=tweetembed

Jay Glazer @JayGlazer
49ers have completed a trade with the Chiefs for Alex Smith, tho can't be official til March 12. Chiefs really made a commitment to Smith

Jay Glazer @JayGlazer
Deal has been agreed upon between Chiefs and 49ers. Compensation unclear but I'm told again Chiefs have made a clear commitment to Smith.

duncan_idaho · 08-26-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nychief

they have a lover likelihood of being "respectable" because the quarterback you mentioned ****ing suck. Geno? barkley? Are you kidding me?

I presented a plethora of options there. Geno in Round 2/different stopgap QB or Barkley in Round 3/different stopgap QB are just two of them. Marcellus said nobody had offered a counter to trading for Alex Smith. I was just providing several of them.

Whether it's "reasonable" depends on how much stock you put in being respectable/maybe slipping into the playoffs this season. If you place a lot of stock in those things, maybe it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He likes them not because they're deserving of being drafted high or being NFL Ready, it's because they would have "tried something new".

That is literally the dumbest reason I can possibly think of when drafting a player.

Back to this, eh?

Yes, the something I wanted the Chiefs to "try" (Drafting a QB in an early round and attempting to develop that QB into a franchise player) is SO radical and completely unproven. No team in the NFL ever does that. No team in the NFL ever has success with that. It isn't the approach that gives you the best odds of finding a long-term, franchise QB.

duncan_idaho · 08-26-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Why couldn't it happen to us? The Seahawks did the exact same thing by signing Flynn and drafting Wilson.

They just got lucky, or were in the right year. But if Wilson wasn't a Godsend and just another 3rd round QB, they'd have gone with Flynn for a year and stuck with him until Wilson was ready or until another QB they drafted in the future worked out.

We could have signed Palmer, drafted Geno or Barkley, then tried again next year at a QB. We wouldn't have been confined to any one guy until he brought some success, whether that was Palmer, the rookie, or even Tyler Bray or Chase Daniel.

After the Smith trade, I wanted to trade down for peanuts, get one or two extra picks, and then draft a QB, hopefully Geno, with that pick. Ideally our first rounder would have been spent on a real CB or defensive lineman or something.

There are so many better and safer things we could have done than banking on Alex Smith resurrecting this franchise. Diversify. Keep trying.

God, you don't just invest in one shitty stock in your portfolio. You try many things. In sports betting, you bet on multiple games to cover your ground.

THIS. Especially the bolded part.

Saccopoo · 08-26-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat2005

Griffin is also a significantly greater prospect than a 29 year old check down game manager

Outside of Oakland trading away so much for Palmer(possibly the worst trade I have ever seen), name the other instances where a team has given up so much for a stop gap

No one gives up that much for short term mediocrity
Chiefs traded away the equivalent of a mid to late first for Smith
Thats a possible Aaron Rodgers or Joe Flacco( I am assuming you think they are franchise qbs)

After passing on every qb in the draft despite people on here saying things like "Chiefs FO loves Geno Smith" we have been hearing about how Andy always wanted Smith and how the OC thinks he is the best qb in the league

If Griffin doesn't get his legs/knee back, it remains to be seen if he'll be an effective NFL level QB. For his entire career, his game was predicated on his ability to get out and scramble. The Redskins hoped that they drafted a smarter Michael Vick without (hopefully) the secondary social issues.

If he's not able to do that because of the knee and he's not able to make the necessary adjustments to his game, then the Redskins paid a horribly high price for Griffin.

With Smith, Reid knew exactly what he was getting and banked on his understanding of his system and what kind of QB that system needs to be ultimately effective when he traded for him. If Smith is able to even come close to what McNabb was able to do in Reid's system, the trade is a fantastic one for the Chiefs. If he's able to surpass what McNabb provided, and that seems to be what Reid is thinking, it's a freaking bargain, especially when you consider what someone like the Redskins gave up in moving up for Griffin.

jd1020 · 08-26-2013, 04:39 PM

Such a shame that Griffin went to Washington. Couldn't have picked a team that gives less shits about their field conditions.

Discuss Thrower · 08-26-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

If Griffin doesn't get his legs/knee back, it remains to be seen if he'll be an effective NFL level QB. For his entire career, his game was predicated on his ability to get out and scramble. The Redskins hoped that they drafted a smarter Michael Vick without (hopefully) the secondary social issues.

If he's not able to do that because of the knee and he's not able to make the necessary adjustments to his game, then the Redskins paid a horribly high price for Griffin.

With Smith, Reid knew exactly what he was getting and banked on his understanding of his system and what kind of QB that system needs to be ultimately effective when he traded for him. If Smith is able to even come close to what McNabb was able to do in Reid's system, the trade is a fantastic one for the Chiefs. If he's able to surpass what McNabb provided, and that seems to be what Reid is thinking, it's a freaking bargain, especially when you consider what someone like the Redskins gave up in moving up for Griffin.

That conditional 2014 pick tho...

DJ's left nut · 08-26-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Why couldn't it happen to us? The Seahawks did the exact same thing by signing Flynn and drafting Wilson.

They just got lucky, or were in the right year. But if Wilson wasn't a Godsend and just another 3rd round QB, they'd have gone with Flynn for a year and stuck with him until Wilson was ready or until another QB they drafted in the future worked out.

We could have signed Palmer, drafted Geno or Barkley, then tried again next year at a QB. We wouldn't have been confined to any one guy until he brought some success, whether that was Palmer, the rookie, or even Tyler Bray or Chase Daniel.

After the Smith trade, I wanted to trade down for peanuts, get one or two extra picks, and then draft a QB, hopefully Geno, with that pick. Ideally our first rounder would have been spent on a real CB or defensive lineman or something.

There are so many better and safer things we could have done than banking on Alex Smith resurrecting this franchise. Diversify. Keep trying.

God, you don't just invest in one shitty stock in your portfolio. You try many things. In sports betting, you bet on multiple games to cover your ground.

Realizing that drafting Barkley would've precluded keeping Bray (because you don't have 2 rookie QBs behind Alex Smith, IMO), do you still prefer Barkley?

How the young QB got on the roster isn't terribly relevant, IMO - we have one. And Bray's the most talented arm to come out of this draft.

So I have to keep asking why people are ignoring the fact that we do have a pretty damn good developmental QB on this roster. He's more likely than not to bust out, but so is just about every QB taken in this draft, Barkley included. And none of those guys have the upside that Bray has.

jd1020 · 08-26-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Realizing that drafting Barkley would've precluded keeping Bray (because you don't have 2 rookie QBs behind Alex Smith, IMO), do you still prefer Barkley?

How the young QB got on the roster isn't terribly relevant, IMO - we have one. And Bray's the most talented arm to come out of this draft.

So I have to keep asking why people are ignoring the fact that we do have a pretty damn good developmental QB on this roster. He's more likely than not to bust out, but so is just about every QB taken in this draft, Barkley included. And none of those guys have the upside that Bray has.

Isn't Barkley having a pretty good preseason?

I'd certainly still take him over Knile Davis.

Bray has upside and all but he'll likely never matter and someone will get drafted in the mid rounds to battle it out for who's cut in the next couple years.

DJ's left nut · 08-26-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Isn't Barkley having a pretty good preseason?

I'd certainly still take him over Knile Davis.

Bray has upside and all but he'll likely never matter and someone will get drafted in the mid rounds to battle it out for who's cut in the next couple years.

I'd take Bray and Davis over Barkley and Draughn without thinking twice. Davis has some warts, but that's a powerful runner with legit breakaway speed. He looks bad sometimes because his vision isn't great and he looks even worse because he's behind Charles. But when I watched him in camp and focused on him against SF, that guy has some legit skill. He's a one-cut guy and if this O-line can get on the same page and give him that one cut, he'll do some damage. If Charles went down, I think we could get 70 yds/gm out of Davis.

Barkley didn't do much against NE. He played alright against Carolina but was clearly outplayed by Vick and Foles, who were outstanding. So it makes you wonder if maybe Carolina just sucked that day.

Saccopoo · 08-26-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

There are so many better and safer things we could have done than banking on Alex Smith resurrecting this franchise. Diversify. Keep trying.

God, you don't just invest in one shitty stock in your portfolio. You try many things. In sports betting, you bet on multiple games to cover your ground.

I seriously don't believe that there was any safer and better thing that the Chiefs could have done than what they did in signing Smith, Smith, Fasano and DeVito.

You talk about trading down and getting a CB, a DL or a TE, but, yet, that's exactly what they did. And they don't have to worry about having to go through rookie growing pains or the very real prospect that those rookies could (and more often than not - do) bust.

They get four guys who are just entering the prime of their careers or are in their prime and who are known commodities in terms of their overall performance - on and off the field and in the locker room.

They are ready to win now, not wasting the prime playing years of guys like Hali, Flowers, Charles, Bowe, etc. Rookies in those exact positions would require multiple years of playing to get to that level - if they ever get there at all. (Case in point - Brandon Albert, Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, et al.)

I know it's fun to watch a guy get drafted and see his career progress knowing that he's "your guy." But there is no measurement of who that guy is and what he'll become at the next level. This team, despite it's 2-14 season last year, is ready to win now. They needed guys who can come in and provide the leadership AND production to be successful right here, right now. No rookie/draft pick is going to do that.

The Chiefs (Hunt/Dorsey/Reid) did the correct thing. And it will pay off for this team sooner rather than later.

Sandy Vagina · 08-26-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I seriously don't believe that there was any safer and better thing that the Chiefs could have done than what they did in signing Smith, Smith, Fasano and DeVito.

You talk about trading down and getting a CB, a DL or a TE, but, yet, that's exactly what they did. And they don't have to worry about having to go through rookie growing pains or the very real prospect that those rookies could (and more often than not - do) bust.

They get four guys who are just entering the prime of their careers or are in their prime and who are known commodities in terms of their overall performance - on and off the field and in the locker room.

They are ready to win now, not wasting the prime playing years of guys like Hali, Flowers, Charles, Bowe, etc. Rookies in those exact positions would require multiple years of playing to get to that level - if they ever get there at all. (Case in point - Brandon Albert, Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, et al.)

I know it's fun to watch a guy get drafted and see his career progress knowing that he's "your guy." But there is no measurement of who that guy is and what he'll become at the next level. This team, despite it's 2-14 season last year, is ready to win now. They needed guys who can come in and provide the leadership AND production to be successful right here, right now. No rookie/draft pick is going to do that.

The Chiefs (Hunt/Dorsey/Reid) did the correct thing. And it will pay off for this team sooner rather than later.

Pablo · 08-26-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I seriously don't believe that there was any safer and better thing that the Chiefs could have done than what they did in signing Smith, Smith, Fasano and DeVito.

You talk about trading down and getting a CB, a DL or a TE, but, yet, that's exactly what they did. And they don't have to worry about having to go through rookie growing pains or the very real prospect that those rookies could (and more often than not - do) bust.

They get four guys who are just entering the prime of their careers or are in their prime and who are known commodities in terms of their overall performance - on and off the field and in the locker room.

They are ready to win now, not wasting the prime playing years of guys like Hali, Flowers, Charles, Bowe, etc. Rookies in those exact positions would require multiple years of playing to get to that level - if they ever get there at all. (Case in point - Brandon Albert, Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, et al.)

I know it's fun to watch a guy get drafted and see his career progress knowing that he's "your guy." But there is no measurement of who that guy is and what he'll become at the next level. This team, despite it's 2-14 season last year, is ready to win now. They needed guys who can come in and provide the leadership AND production to be successful right here, right now. No rookie/draft pick is going to do that.

The Chiefs (Hunt/Dorsey/Reid) did the correct thing. And it will pay off for this team sooner rather than later.

Sacc, we've all seen your mock drafts.

We all know you've busted thousands of hot knuckle ropes over the Utah connection in KC.

There hadn't better be any excuses for this ****ing regime if they fall flat on their face this season.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-26-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I presented a plethora of options there. Geno in Round 2/different stopgap QB or Barkley in Round 3/different stopgap QB are just two of them. Marcellus said nobody had offered a counter to trading for Alex Smith. I was just providing several of them.

Whether it's "reasonable" depends on how much stock you put in being respectable/maybe slipping into the playoffs this season. If you place a lot of stock in those things, maybe it isn't.

Back to this, eh?

Yes, the something I wanted the Chiefs to "try" (Drafting a QB in an early round and attempting to develop that QB into a franchise player) is SO radical and completely unproven. No team in the NFL ever does that. No team in the NFL ever has success with that. It isn't the approach that gives you the best odds of finding a long-term, franchise QB.

Overdrafting is ALWAYS a bad idea.

The fact that you would have rather had Geno Smith in the second or Matt Barkley in the third means that you either DON'T know how to evaluate QB's and were this unable to recognize their flaws, or your just an armchair GM with nothing better to do than complain.

How many second round QB's have won a Super Bowl in the modern era?

How many third round QB's?

O.city · 08-26-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Realizing that drafting Barkley would've precluded keeping Bray (because you don't have 2 rookie QBs behind Alex Smith, IMO), do you still prefer Barkley?

How the young QB got on the roster isn't terribly relevant, IMO - we have one. And Bray's the most talented arm to come out of this draft.

So I have to keep asking why people are ignoring the fact that we do have a pretty damn good developmental QB on this roster. He's more likely than not to bust out, but so is just about every QB taken in this draft, Barkley included. And none of those guys have the upside that Bray has.

After looking/reading stuff about all theses guys that were drafted this year, I think I'm leaning more and more this way.

Bray obviously fell for mental reasons and is a long shot though, but he's in a great situation for himself to take advantage of

jd1020 · 08-26-2013, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd take Bray and Davis over Barkley and Draughn without thinking twice. Davis has some warts, but that's a powerful runner with legit breakaway speed. He looks bad sometimes because his vision isn't great and he looks even worse because he's behind Charles. But when I watched him in camp and focused on him against SF, that guy has some legit skill. He's a one-cut guy and if this O-line can get on the same page and give him that one cut, he'll do some damage. If Charles went down, I think we could get 70 yds/gm out of Davis.

I just don't think the Davis pick was good value at all. Wasn't he drafted on something he did back in 2010? He's got size, he's got speed. But after that one season he was always on the sideline with an injury or fumbling, and he's already flashed his ability to put the ball on the ground.

Do you believe he'll be more than Moeaki?

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-26-2013, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I just don't think the Davis pick was good value at all. Wasn't he drafted on something he did back in 2010? He's got size, he's got speed. But after that one season he was always on the sideline with an injury or fumbling, and he's already flashed his ability to put the ball on the ground.

Do you believe he'll be more than Moeaki?

Good grief. This forum had been overrun by idiots.

02-27-2013, 10:59 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3914454	Alex Smith Traded to Chiefs Well, it looks like the deal is done. https://twitter.com/intent/user?scre...w_p=tweetembed Jay Glazer @JayGlazer 49ers have completed a trade with the Chiefs for Alex Smith, tho can't be official til March 12. Chiefs really made a commitment to Smith Jay Glazer @JayGlazer Deal has been agreed upon between Chiefs and 49ers. Compensation unclear but I'm told again Chiefs have made a clear commitment to Smith.
Posts: 66,914

08-26-2013, 04:39 PM	#5494
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7742645	Such a shame that Griffin went to Washington. Couldn't have picked a team that gives less shits about their field conditions.
Posts: 24,322