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Old 09-20-2008, 11:34 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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Strict Constructionists: Was this judge out of line?

Sagging Pants Ban Overturned

http://www.kfbk.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=4255711



A judge in Riviera Beach, Florida has ruled a law banning sagging pants is unconstitutional.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008

A 17 year old boy spent the night in jail last week after an officer said he spotted the teenager riding his bicycle with 4 to 5 inches of boxer shorts exposed.

Circuit Judge Paul Moyle ruled that the law was unconstitutional based on limited facts. However, the charge hasn't been dropped yet and a new arraignment is set for Oct. 5.

The law was voted on back in March. A first offense for sagging pants carries a $150 fine or community service, and habitual offenders face the possibility of jail time.

The boy's public defender, Carol Bickerstaff, said she wants the city to drop the law regardless of whether anyone dislikes low-riding pants. She also told the judge, "Your honor, we now have the fashion police
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:08 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Some of you guys need to read up on the case law....regarding school dress codes.

You appear to be allowing your liberal biases to color your views; case law is pretty clear on this....for high school students anyway.

While "first amendment" rights are not surrendered at the school house door as they say....reasonable actions to prevent disruptive or gang related dress have been upheld, repeatedly.


Where does it say "school"?
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
This is not a school dress code IIRC, it is a city ordinance.

You don't usually ride your bicycle by cops while you are in school.
Thanks. I just assumed it was a school case. I suspect, if it's not school grounds we are talking about....it will be much more difficult to over-turn; although, depending on circumstances (age, location, and specifics), it could still be argued (although even I would find it difficult to justify.)
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post


Where does it say "school"?
Sorry. I perused it quickly; bad assumption on my part. I've corrected myself.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:11 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
I came across it in the book I'm reading "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan.

It says:




Unfortunately, nothing is footnoted in the book. Just the sources listed in the back, which is where I assume he'd have gotten it from.
Well, I'm just guessing here, since I don't know what the regulation and corresponding statute in play actually said, but it sounds like the FDA issued a regulation that interpreted a word in the statute in a way to make enforcement more difficult. That happens all the time, and is a necessary component of having administrative agencies. Do they always make the right call? No. But Congress always has the power to strike down any regulation they don't lke by re-clarifying the matter more specifically (i.e., detting out a contrary definition of "imitation").
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Thanks. I just assumed it was a school case. I suspect, if it's not school grounds we are talking about....it will be much more difficult to over-turn; although, depending on circumstances (age, location, and specifics), it could still be argued (although even I would find it difficult to justify.)
Out of curiosity, have you yelled at any students to pull their pants up?
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
Out of curiosity, have you yelled at any students to pull their pants up?
Yelled? Define "yell?"

Corrected, yes. Sent defiant "fight-da-man" types to the office for detention/suspension? Sure.

"Yell?" Not by my definition, anyway. Heh.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
You appear to be allowing your liberal biases to color your views.
Damn our liberal basic reading comprehension!



God.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:19 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Yelled? Define "yell?"

Corrected, yes. Sent defiant "fight-da-man" types to the office for detention/suspension? Sure.

"Yell?" Not by my definition, anyway. Heh.
I just thought it probably had come up.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:25 AM   #39
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I just thought it probably had come up.
Oh, yeah.

FWIW, if you doubt the way "we" handle it, as opposed to a more "liberal" approach....

Compare our "incidents" of gang 'problems,' office referrrals, acts of violence, drug related offenses, and the like....to Sioux City.....a city quite similar in many ways to ours, and not significantly different demographically speaking than "us"....their "problems" are geometrically multiplied compared to ours....

Why? Attitudes. Proactive interventions.

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Old 09-21-2008, 12:33 AM   #40
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Oh, yeah.

FWIW, if you doubt the way "we" handle it, as opposed to a more "liberal" approach....

Compare our "incidents" of gang 'problems,' office referrrals, acts of violence, drug related offenses, and the like....to Sioux City.....a city quite similar in many ways to ours, and not significantly different demographically speaking than "us"....their "problems" are geometrically multiplied compared to ours....

Why? Attitudes. Proactive interventions.

Uh, I'm not familiar with your territory, but I'd be amazed if you had a bigger gang problem than Dodge City. So I know a little bit about it.

That being said, we need to radically change our approach and focus.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:40 AM   #41
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Strict constructionists are like the Republican platform. They don't exist.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:42 AM   #42
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Uh, I'm not familiar with your territory, but I'd be amazed if you had a bigger gang problem than Dodge City. So I know a little bit about it.

That being said, we need to radically change our approach and focus.
If Dodge City has a problem, they could definitely learn some things from us. We were at the edge....with Sioux City, 10-15 years ago. They've gone one direction, we've gone the other. In short, they've got real serious problems....and we've even gotten our kids to buy into keeping that crap out of our schools (so far, so good.)
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:43 AM   #43
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Strict constructionists are like the Republican platform. They don't exist.
Original intent/natural law types will suffice as "strict constructionist"....for the most part.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #44
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Original intent/natural law types will suffice as "strict constructionist"....for the most part.
I have a pathetically low view of the justice department and judicial branch. Perhaps that is because of the current administration, but I just see them as voter-proofed ideologues.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
If Dodge City has a problem, they could definitely learn some things from us. We were at the edge....with Sioux City, 10-15 years ago. They've gone one direction, we've gone the other. In short, they've got real serious problems....and we've even gotten our kids to buy into keeping that crap out of our schools (so far, so good.)
I'm wondering if the source of the problem hasn't been gentlemen like yourself who "peruse" the facts of a case and then make unfair and inaccurate assumptions about those involved.

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