For those who want to trade our 2nd rounder for Surtain... - Page 2

shaneo69 · 04-19-2005, 09:43 PM

If our 2nd rounder is gone, who do you want in the first, and how should we fix our LB problem?

Poll forthcoming, if I can figure this thing out. It may take awhile, I'm no Rainman.

shaneo69 · 04-19-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

If we don't trade the #2 for Surtain (

Carl, get it done!), then draft Carlos Rogers at 15, and a LB at 46.

That's what I'm saying. I think we can get a starting LB at #46.

jspchief · 04-19-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

Yeah it kinda sucks we ya have a defense as bad as we do.

It's a pick your poision. I'll take teams getting several 10 yard plays (running) rather than several 40 yard plays (passing). Give me the CB.

What sucks is that we didn't start this house cleaning last year. Had we started this process last year, we could be in need of filling half as many positions. Sticking with the bums we had left us needing to upgrade 75% of our D this year.

suds79 · 04-19-2005, 10:04 PM

How is it one of the CBs isn't an option to this poll?

milkman · 04-19-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I completely disagree about the fact we need LBs more than CBs.

Our pass defense has been consistently horrible for forever now.

We can snag an Anthony Simmons or Warrick Holdman after the draft.

And our run D has been consistently horrible.

And do you really believe that Carl will do anymore in FA if he gets the trade for Surtain done?

I don't.

**HemiEd** · 04-19-2005, 10:04 PM

Providing we can figure out how to get Surtain under the Cap, it has to be done. As CP said, there has to be an order to things for this to happen. After watching the workouts, I am more convinced that we should get Blackstock and not DJ.
It seems like everyone wants to trade down, so I think we go the other way and go offense. Can we get a Top notch WR, Blackstock and Surtain?

jspchief · 04-19-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

That's what I'm saying. I think we can get a starting LB at #46.

Take a look at last year's 2nd round LBs. See anybody good? Didn't think so. Go look at the 2003 second round LBs. recognize anyone? Even if you do, they didn't do sh*t their rookie year.

Counting on a second round pick for a starting LB gets you Kawika Mitchell quality players.

suds79 · 04-19-2005, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Take a look at last year's 2nd round LBs. See anybody good? Didn't think so. Go look at the 2003 second round LBs. recognize anyone? Even if you do, they didn't do sh*t their rookie year.

Counting on a second round pick for a starting LB gets you Kawika Mitchell quality players.

I'm pretty sure I can speak for all other LBs drafted in the middle rounds when being compared to Kawika Mitchell.

"I take offense to that".

shaneo69 · 04-19-2005, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

How is it one of the CBs isn't an option to this poll?

My original point was that if Rogers is there at #15, take him and keep your 2nd rounder to use on a LB. If Rogers is gone, I would say you have to trade for Surtain and use the 1st rounder on your front 7.

jspchief · 04-19-2005, 10:10 PM

We gave up more yards per play in the air last year than on the ground. That's not "per completion", that's per attempt.

We gave up 8 yards per pass attempt! If teams can throw on us like that, LBs won't matter. Look at the pass/run ratio against us in the second half of last year. Teams figured out that they simply didn't need to run the ball.

**morphius** · 04-19-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

With or without Surtain, I want either Rolle, Rogers or Jones (and in that order) with the 1st pick.

The only exception to that would be if Derrick Johnson is there.

Here's why I say take a CB no matter what.

If Eric Warfield gets suspended for the 1st 4 games next year and we don't have one of those top rated CBs, we're done. It won't matter if we have Surtain because our opponents will just pick on our #2 & #3 CBs.

Say Eric Warfield can play. Then teams will just run out there 3 wide and simply pick on either Dexter or Burntee.

Basically what I'm saying is we need 3 quaility CBs going into next year and we currently have 1.

I'm pretty much with you, we needed 2-3 CB's this offseason, so far we haven't added any. Get Surtain and draft one of the top three CB's at #15.

Sure LB is an issue, but I'll be damned if I want to see another team play pass and catch on our CB's all day long for huge plays like last year. Hell, it didn't matter if we had pressure or not, pressure would almost get there, QB just throws it up to whoever Bartee/McCleon/Battle are covering for a guarnteed reception, a LB isn't going to help stop that.

shaneo69 · 04-19-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Take a look at last year's 2nd round LBs. See anybody good? Didn't think so. Go look at the 2003 second round LBs. recognize anyone? Even if you do, they didn't do sh*t their rookie year.

Counting on a second round pick for a starting LB gets you Kawika Mitchell quality players.

I think Boley could start right away on this defense.

jspchief · 04-19-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

I think Boley could start right away on this defense.

So? Mitchell started his rookie year on our defense too. That doesn't make him good.

Pants · 04-19-2005, 10:15 PM

Shane, I really don't see your logic, if there even is one. We NEED Surtain PERIOD. It doesn't matter who we draft (at 15 or even 46), none of them will be proven Pro-Bowl caliber players who can be an instant relief to our useless defense. It boggles my mind how you can place hopes on a 2nd round LB pick, it is at this point point that I have to ask you: Are you insane?

shaneo69 · 04-19-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphius

I'm pretty much with you, we needed 2-3 CB's this offseason, so far we haven't added any. Get Surtain and draft one of the top three CB's at #15.

Sure LB is an issue, but I'll be damned if I want to see another team play pass and catch on our CB's all day long for huge plays like last year. Hell, it didn't matter if we had pressure or not, pressure would almost get there, QB just throws it up to whoever Bartee/McCleon/Battle are covering for a guarnteed reception, a LB isn't going to help stop that.

Even with 4 Pro Bowlers in the secondary and three 1st round picks on the D-line in the mid-to-late 80's, our defense still sucked. Why? We had no LB's until Derrick got here.

**morphius** · 04-19-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

Even with 4 Pro Bowlers in the secondary and three 1st round picks on the D-line in the mid-to-late 80's, our defense still sucked. Why? We had no LB's until Derrick got here.

But how often did DT really play a true LB position and not as a rush end?

You have to have some balance, but when you may lose your only start worthy CB for four of the hardest games of the year, you need 2 people you can play.

View Poll Results: If we trade our 2nd for Surtain, who do you want in the 1st?
Draft Erasmus James at #15, only use 1 LB (Bell)	0	0%
Draft David Pollack at #15, make him a LB like Tedy Bruschi	6	37.50%
Draft Thomas Davis at #15; play a 4-1-6 defense with 4 safeties	4	25.00%
Trade down for an extra 3rd rounder; take Darryl Blackstock and switch to a 3-4	2	12.50%
Take Alex Barron at #15; Willie Roaf only plans on playing 3 more years	0	0%
Take Mark Clayton at #15; Samie Parker looks like a bust	2	12.50%
Take Travis Johnson at #15; we need a good DT project	0	0%
Take Marcus Spears at #15; make Scanlon a starter	0	0%
Take Brodney Pool at #15; we need another safety	1	6.25%
Take Heath Miller at #15; we need a big TE	1	6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

04-19-2005, 09:43 PM
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	For those who want to trade our 2nd rounder for Surtain... If our 2nd rounder is gone, who do you want in the first, and how should we fix our LB problem? Poll forthcoming, if I can figure this thing out. It may take awhile, I'm no Rainman.
Posts: 4,910

04-19-2005, 10:04 PM	#18
suds79 MVP Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10005036	How is it one of the CBs isn't an option to this poll?
Posts: 5,747

04-19-2005, 10:04 PM	#20
HemiEd Supporter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ozarks Casino cash: $3310564	Providing we can figure out how to get Surtain under the Cap, it has to be done. As CP said, there has to be an order to things for this to happen. After watching the workouts, I am more convinced that we should get Blackstock and not DJ. It seems like everyone wants to trade down, so I think we go the other way and go offense. Can we get a Top notch WR, Blackstock and Surtain?
Posts: 33,410

04-19-2005, 10:10 PM	#24
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	We gave up more yards per play in the air last year than on the ground. That's not "per completion", that's per attempt. We gave up 8 yards per pass attempt! If teams can throw on us like that, LBs won't matter. Look at the pass/run ratio against us in the second half of last year. Teams figured out that they simply didn't need to run the ball. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

04-19-2005, 10:15 PM	#28
Pants Time Keeps On Slipping Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $5719900	Shane, I really don't see your logic, if there even is one. We NEED Surtain PERIOD. It doesn't matter who we draft (at 15 or even 46), none of them will be proven Pro-Bowl caliber players who can be an instant relief to our useless defense. It boggles my mind how you can place hopes on a 2nd round LB pick, it is at this point point that I have to ask you: Are you insane? __________________ "Turn the channel to 26!"
Posts: 27,294