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Old 09-22-2012, 08:22 PM  
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #61
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Hey - this ain't Dane here, I'll take a look at whatever you've got (Sorry, Dane...)

The problem with Wilson's arm strength is one of pure leverage. On intermediate routes, he can't get on top of the ball and fire into seams. Watch his 'bullets' on intermediate routes - the nose is up on most of them. That gives something of a float effect to the ball and makes it easier for DBs to drive on them and knock them away.

It's less of a deep ball concern, where you're putting so much arch on it that it's getting over the line fairly easily anyway, than it is an out route or even crossing pattern problem. He can't get on top of the ball and drive it down into areas. It may only cost him 1/2 a second on a 15 yard pass, but that 1/2 a second is enough to get it batted away. He has to be much crisper and much cleaner with his decisions than a guy like Jones or even Barkley (though Barkley's also a little shortish) would have to be because they can buy a little time on those routes by getting up on their toes, getting on top of the ball and rifling it downhill. Wilson only has that option if his line has given him a clear line of sight and throwing lane, and if they did so at the exact moment that his WR comes into that lane. It happens, but it's certainly not ideal.

That's actually where I was incredibly impressed with Jones Saturday. That kid can throw a rocket 20 yards up the seam in his sleep. He can stay on top of the ball and drive it through coverage. Because of his height, the ball spends most of its flight on a downward plane and it just sticks right into those small windows. DBs have very little chance to make a play on the ball if he doesn't telegraph it.

Unfortunately, sometimes he does. That's where Jones has to develop his game. His physical skills, however, are immense.
I definitely agree that Landry has some great physical tools. To me, that is what is maddening about him and his lack of development the last 2 years, along with his inability to complete throws under pressure.
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I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Hey - this ain't Dane here, I'll take a look at whatever you've got (Sorry, Dane...)

The problem with Wilson's arm strength is one of pure leverage. On intermediate routes, he can't get on top of the ball and fire into seams. Watch his 'bullets' on intermediate routes - the nose is up on most of them. That gives something of a float effect to the ball and makes it easier for DBs to drive on them and knock them away.

It's less of a deep ball concern, where you're putting so much arch on it that it's getting over the line fairly easily anyway, than it is an out route or even crossing pattern problem. He can't get on top of the ball and drive it down into areas. It may only cost him 1/2 a second on a 15 yard pass, but that 1/2 a second is enough to get it batted away. He has to be much crisper and much cleaner with his decisions than a guy like Jones or even Barkley (though Barkley's also a little shortish) would have to be because they can buy a little time on those routes by getting up on their toes, getting on top of the ball and rifling it downhill. Wilson only has that option if his line has given him a clear line of sight and throwing lane, and if they did so at the exact moment that his WR comes into that lane. It happens, but it's certainly not ideal.

That's actually where I was incredibly impressed with Jones Saturday. That kid can throw a rocket 20 yards up the seam in his sleep. He can stay on top of the ball and drive it through coverage. Because of his height, the ball spends most of its flight on a downward plane and it just sticks right into those small windows. DBs have very little chance to make a play on the ball if he doesn't telegraph it.

Unfortunately, sometimes he does. That's where Jones has to develop his game. His physical skills, however, are immense.
What you are describing is a height issue, not an arm strength issue.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #63
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What you are describing is a height issue, not an arm strength issue.
This, IMO. He seems to get plenty of velocity of deep outs/corners when he needs to and I have seen several passes down the seam that appear to have zip.
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I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:18 PM   #64
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What you are describing is a height issue, not an arm strength issue.
I suppose that's a fair read.

Call it a 'velocity' issue then. When I think of arm strength, I'm not talking about a guy's ability to throw it 70 yards, I'm thinking more about his working arm strength - his ability to put the ball into tight spaces that are closing rapidly.

I also look at the ability to generate that velocity with a quick release as part of one's arm strength (this is where Cassel fails so badly; his arm is actually adequate, he just needs 20 acres and no defenders in order to actually generate the power in it, as opposed to someone like Jones that can do it with a wrist flip).

If you want to call it a height problem instead of an arm strength problem, that's fine. In either event, there's an actual physical hurdle keeping him from getting balls into tight spaces that a guy like Jones or Barkley would have an easier job overcoming.

Wilson could do it if he developed uncanny accuracy and timing, but I don't think he will.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:22 PM   #65
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Wilson could do it if he developed uncanny accuracy and timing, but I don't think he will.
I think Carroll's belief in a WCO is a perfect fit, as it will require him to work on those skills and develop them.
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I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:25 PM   #66
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Landry Jones screams to me Dallas Cowboys 3rd round pick to me.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:27 PM   #67
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I think Carroll's belief in a WCO is a perfect fit, as it will require him to work on those skills and develop them.
Carroll's offense could work wonders for him, I'll give you that. I'm mostly thinking of him as a prospect, not as a QB in a particular scheme.

He's being allowed to roll out a little bit and use his legs to find the space and generate that leverage by simply moving around the mess in the center of the field.

If you aren't going to utilize a west coast scheme, however, I think you'd struggle pretty mightily w/ Wilson as your QB.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #68
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Carroll's offense could work wonders for him, I'll give you that. I'm mostly thinking of him as a prospect, not as a QB in a particular scheme.

He's being allowed to roll out a little bit and use his legs to find the space and generate that leverage by simply moving around the mess in the center of the field.

If you aren't going to utilize a west coast scheme, however, I think you'd struggle pretty mightily w/ Wilson as your QB.
Totally. Wilson in Norv's scheme would be hilarious, IMO.

I do think that when you evaluate QBs, you take into consideration what kind of philosophies might highlight their strengths and hide their weaknesses. Ideally, you have a QB you can throw into any scheme and they'll produce but that is pretty rare, IMO.

Example, if the Chiefs were to hire Gruden, I wouldn't be as upset with Barkley as our pick as if Saunders was running the O.

Another example would be Flacco being a great fit for Cameron's Coryell O.
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I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #69
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Thought I should Gif this thread the **** up!


The only thing that depresses me about drafting a QB in the first is missing out on one of this year's best prospects, and my top choice, Manti Te'o.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #70
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If I were gonna be sad about missing out on a prospect, it would be jarvis jones.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:55 PM   #71
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If I were gonna be sad about missing out on a prospect, it would be jarvis jones.
Jarvis is a beast.

Te'o is the guy you can build your defense around. He is an anchor. He was the #1 defender coming out of high school and has done nothing but get better every year.

Jarvis Jones should be really good at the NFL level. Really, really good.

But I put my money on Te'o as having the best chance to go to multiple probowls for the same team. He's as close to getting a guaranteed Urlacher/Seau/Lewis type player as you can hope for.

I've been screaming his name from the hilltops since he was in high school. I'm wildly biased, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong...
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:56 PM   #72
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They are both great players, no doubt.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #73
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They are both great players, no doubt.
Throw in Mingo, Lotulelei, Hankins and Demontre Moore, and there are a TON of front seven guys that should be strong considerations in the top 10.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:10 PM   #74
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Throw in Mingo, Lotulelei, Hankins and Demontre Moore, and there are a TON of front seven guys that should be strong considerations in the top 10.
Janoris Jenkins
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:16 PM   #75
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The easiest barometer for this argument is will he win us the game when we're down? Landry Jones will not. I want a QB that announcers on the television and all major media outlets say "You can't give him the ball with that much time left on the clock!" I want the opposing team fearing our QB over every other player on our team and that includes Jamaal Charles. You get that guy, you make it impossible for teams to stack the box and dominate our Oline. This is basic knowledge, and not Cassel, nor Jones, nor Quinn, nor Stanzi, nor any other FA will give us that fear that a rookie quarterback like Smith and Barkley will do. Give that to me this offseason and I'll be back next season.
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