I am concerned about Big 12 Basketball

BWillie · 11-15-2007, 03:00 AM

I am deeply concerned regarding Big 12 basketball. It seems like every year people say oh the Big 12 is in a down year, well it has been that way for the last five years. The Big 12 has been perenially the worst BCS major conference in college basketball. Recently the Valley has risen up, and probably is a better basketball conference OVERALL than the big 12. The Valley probably doesn't have the greatest top teams like the Kansas's of the world, but they are solid through and through.

Lets take a look at a snap shot of what happened in the Big 12 today

Iowa State loses to Bradley 65-56. A Bradley team coming off of a loss to the likes of Illinois-Chicago University.

OKlahoma State loses by ten to NORTH TEXAS. When has North Texas been good at ANYTHING?

Sam Houston State beats TEXAS TECH by two. Bob Knight can't get recruits and it's starting to show. I can't remember the last time any major Texas school lost to Sam Houston State in any sports.

Texas AM pulls out a squeaker against the mighty UTEP.

Recruiting classes are down. I was reading on rivals the other day about ranking the recruits by conference. The Big 12 was once again had the lowest rated recruiting classes overall compared to the other six major conferences.

Additionally, there has been a huge coaching carousel and lack of stability within the coaching circles lately.

Why can't the Big 12 pull it together. The ACC and the SEC are going to run shit the next couple of years, with the Big 10, Big East, and the Pac 10 not far behind. Then waaaay behind is the Big 12.

The last two years the BIG XII has been dead last in conference RPI out of the major conferences, and that is INCLUDING the Missouri Valley.

Can you imagine how bad the Big 12 would be without Kansas? I can't even imagine it.

Silock · 11-15-2007, 03:28 AM

I blame ESPN.

Bump · 11-15-2007, 04:22 AM

so I guess KU will just have to run the table on them all.

**Saulbadguy** · 11-15-2007, 06:50 AM

Newsflash..the Big XII has always sucked in basketball, and has always been overrated in football.

Braincase · 11-15-2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRCOAT

Newsflash..the Big XII has always sucked in basketball, and has always been overrated in football.

Check 1988 NCAA Tourney - good showings by K-State and Oklahoma.

**DaKCMan AP** · 11-15-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braincase

Check 1988 NCAA Tourney - good showings by K-State and Oklahoma.

While Saul can exaggerate, going back 20 years to make a point is pretty sad.

**Saulbadguy** · 11-15-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braincase

Check 1988 NCAA Tourney - good showings by K-State and Oklahoma.

That was the Big 8.

Alec R · 11-15-2007, 08:43 AM

Can't keep the coaches.

With the SEC and ACC having more traditional basketball schools than the Big 12, its tough to keep coaches here. Take Gillespie for example. He turned A&M around and the moment Kentucky opened up he bolted, no questions asked.

Roy bounced for NC from KU for cryin out loud.

OkSU lost Eddie and its pretty clear Sean is no where near the coach that his dad was. Rick Barnes sucks as a coach. He pretty much single handedly killed any chance UT had at winning even with Durant last year.

I think Huggins left too right? I cant remember. Until the Big 12 schools realize that they need to hire and KEEP big time coaches (which means over paying because traditional schools like UCLA, UNC, UK, etc can entice anyone if there is an opening even if it is for lesser money) who are also great recruiters. If A&M really wanted to keep competing, they would have kept Gillespie.

Also, keep in mind that the other conferences get rated higher mostly because of history. UNC almost lost to Davidson last night but that wont change the media's mind that UNC is the best in the land and that the ACC and Big East are awesome conferences (even though they are probably a bit overrated).

Besides, none of that matters. KU is the only school that mattes

kcfan82 · 11-15-2007, 08:45 AM

The Big XII is still working in alot of new coaches, I expect this conference to be alot better after the regular season.

Probably only 4-5 teams in the tourney this year though.

**Lzen** · 11-15-2007, 09:34 AM

These things go in cycles. Just a few years ago, the Big 12 had consecutive years in which 2 of the Final Four teams were from the Big 12. Like others have said, the conference is breaking in a lot of new coaches this year.

As for KU and Roy - he would not have left for any other job. Come on, man. It was his alma mater.
KSU and Huggings - same thing, although I think he would have left anyways. Just not that soon.
Gillespie and aTm - what do you expect? Stay at a school that is much less concerned about hoops than they are about football or go to a traditional basketball powerhouse? That was a no-brainer.

I don't know what Big 12 coaches get paid in comparison to other conferences. Frankly, until someone can show some real figures on that, I'm not buying that BS that the Big 12 does not pay it's coaches as much. That's idiotic.

**Saulbadguy** · 11-15-2007, 09:39 AM

To address the initial post -

Texas Tech won't amount to much this year IMO - Bobby Knight has lost the ability to recruit, and it will show in the next few years.

A&M is overrated. New coach, no Acie Law, poor shooting team.

Oklahoma State - they are breaking in quite a few new players, and still breaking in their new coach.

Iowa State - same as above.

**Lzen** · 11-15-2007, 09:43 AM

Knight isn't able to recruit really good players, sure. But it has probably been a couple of decades since he has been able to do that. The guy is good at getting the most out of lesser players.

Braincase · 11-15-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

While Saul can exaggerate, going back 20 years to make a point is pretty sad.

I brought up that one to make a specific point. It's a private joke.

I guess I'd have to look up the W/L record in the tourney. There have been some teams that were good in the past that are having to rebound due to coaching issues/changes. There does seem to be a problem with signing highly-touted recruits, as in early rankings of the 2008 early signing periods, only one Big 12 team is in the top 25, according to Scouts.com, but then again, Scouts is what it is, based on subjective opinions.

RustShack · 11-15-2007, 10:04 AM

Iowa State gets ****ed every year, Stinson and Blaylock decide to enter the draft, Taylor gets kicked off the team, the players that stick around are the ones who don't pan out like they were supposed to.

**noa** · 11-15-2007, 10:06 AM

I blame globalization and the internet

11-15-2007, 03:00 AM
BWillie Future NBA Finals MVP Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Earth Casino cash: $2511241	I am concerned about Big 12 Basketball I am deeply concerned regarding Big 12 basketball. It seems like every year people say oh the Big 12 is in a down year, well it has been that way for the last five years. The Big 12 has been perenially the worst BCS major conference in college basketball. Recently the Valley has risen up, and probably is a better basketball conference OVERALL than the big 12. The Valley probably doesn't have the greatest top teams like the Kansas's of the world, but they are solid through and through. Lets take a look at a snap shot of what happened in the Big 12 today Iowa State loses to Bradley 65-56. A Bradley team coming off of a loss to the likes of Illinois-Chicago University. OKlahoma State loses by ten to NORTH TEXAS. When has North Texas been good at ANYTHING? Sam Houston State beats TEXAS TECH by two. Bob Knight can't get recruits and it's starting to show. I can't remember the last time any major Texas school lost to Sam Houston State in any sports. Texas AM pulls out a squeaker against the mighty UTEP. Recruiting classes are down. I was reading on rivals the other day about ranking the recruits by conference. The Big 12 was once again had the lowest rated recruiting classes overall compared to the other six major conferences. Additionally, there has been a huge coaching carousel and lack of stability within the coaching circles lately. Why can't the Big 12 pull it together. The ACC and the SEC are going to run shit the next couple of years, with the Big 10, Big East, and the Pac 10 not far behind. Then waaaay behind is the Big 12. The last two years the BIG XII has been dead last in conference RPI out of the major conferences, and that is INCLUDING the Missouri Valley. Can you imagine how bad the Big 12 would be without Kansas? I can't even imagine it.
Posts: 45,818

11-15-2007, 03:28 AM	#2
Silock MVP Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $10020882	I blame ESPN.
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11-15-2007, 04:22 AM	#3
Bump YOU take YOUR seat Join Date: Nov 2007 Casino cash: $2315105	so I guess KU will just have to run the table on them all. __________________
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11-15-2007, 06:50 AM	#4
Saulbadguy When a nightmare becomes real Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $2706966	Newsflash..the Big XII has always sucked in basketball, and has always been overrated in football. __________________ http://www.goemaw.com
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11-15-2007, 08:43 AM	#8
Alec R Jayhawker Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10004900	Can't keep the coaches. With the SEC and ACC having more traditional basketball schools than the Big 12, its tough to keep coaches here. Take Gillespie for example. He turned A&M around and the moment Kentucky opened up he bolted, no questions asked. Roy bounced for NC from KU for cryin out loud. OkSU lost Eddie and its pretty clear Sean is no where near the coach that his dad was. Rick Barnes sucks as a coach. He pretty much single handedly killed any chance UT had at winning even with Durant last year. I think Huggins left too right? I cant remember. Until the Big 12 schools realize that they need to hire and KEEP big time coaches (which means over paying because traditional schools like UCLA, UNC, UK, etc can entice anyone if there is an opening even if it is for lesser money) who are also great recruiters. If A&M really wanted to keep competing, they would have kept Gillespie. Also, keep in mind that the other conferences get rated higher mostly because of history. UNC almost lost to Davidson last night but that wont change the media's mind that UNC is the best in the land and that the ACC and Big East are awesome conferences (even though they are probably a bit overrated). Besides, none of that matters. KU is the only school that mattes __________________ Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
Posts: 391

11-15-2007, 08:45 AM	#9
kcfan82 Starter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $10004900	The Big XII is still working in alot of new coaches, I expect this conference to be alot better after the regular season. Probably only 4-5 teams in the tourney this year though.
Posts: 881

11-15-2007, 09:34 AM	#10
Lzen Supporter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Jan Quadrant Vincent 16 Casino cash: $2300692	These things go in cycles. Just a few years ago, the Big 12 had consecutive years in which 2 of the Final Four teams were from the Big 12. Like others have said, the conference is breaking in a lot of new coaches this year. As for KU and Roy - he would not have left for any other job. Come on, man. It was his alma mater. KSU and Huggings - same thing, although I think he would have left anyways. Just not that soon. Gillespie and aTm - what do you expect? Stay at a school that is much less concerned about hoops than they are about football or go to a traditional basketball powerhouse? That was a no-brainer. I don't know what Big 12 coaches get paid in comparison to other conferences. Frankly, until someone can show some real figures on that, I'm not buying that BS that the Big 12 does not pay it's coaches as much. That's idiotic. __________________ If at first you don't succeed ...skydiving is not for you.
Posts: 41,311

11-15-2007, 09:39 AM	#11
Saulbadguy When a nightmare becomes real Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $2706966	To address the initial post - Texas Tech won't amount to much this year IMO - Bobby Knight has lost the ability to recruit, and it will show in the next few years. A&M is overrated. New coach, no Acie Law, poor shooting team. Oklahoma State - they are breaking in quite a few new players, and still breaking in their new coach. Iowa State - same as above. __________________ http://www.goemaw.com
Posts: 46,964

11-15-2007, 09:43 AM	#12
Lzen Supporter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Jan Quadrant Vincent 16 Casino cash: $2300692	Knight isn't able to recruit really good players, sure. But it has probably been a couple of decades since he has been able to do that. The guy is good at getting the most out of lesser players. __________________ If at first you don't succeed ...skydiving is not for you.
Posts: 41,311

11-15-2007, 10:04 AM	#14
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4776954	Iowa State gets ****ed every year, Stinson and Blaylock decide to enter the draft, Taylor gets kicked off the team, the players that stick around are the ones who don't pan out like they were supposed to. __________________
Posts: 15,047

11-15-2007, 10:06 AM	#15
noa Band Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $1675453	I blame globalization and the internet __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes, well, he eats you.
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