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Old 04-28-2012, 12:58 PM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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****OFFICIAL 2012 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD****

Great sports weekend with the draft and now the NBA Playoffs starting today

First Round Matchups Today:

76ers vs Bulls
Knicks vs Heat
Magic vs Pacers
Mavs vs Thunder

Sunday:

Jazz vs Spurs
Celtics vs Hawks
Clippers vs Grizzlies
Nuggets vs Lakers

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Old 06-22-2012, 02:15 AM   #5251
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Oh, did that upset you?

Fact is, over the last five years since Kobe's decline (which is what I was referring to there), Wade certainly was.
Since Wade has entered the league he's beaten Bryant once in ppg and been All NBA Defensive second team 3 times compared to Bryants 8 All NBA Defensive first teams and 1 second team.

Wade is soooooooooooo much better.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:17 AM   #5252
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Yeah, Kobe knows that better than anybody considering he threatened to quit on the Lakers during their struggles until they got him another star.
LeBron knows it even better since he did quit on the Cavaliers.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:30 AM   #5253
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Originally Posted by jd1020 View Post
Since Wade has entered the league he's beaten Bryant once in ppg and been All NBA Defensive second team 3 times compared to Bryants 8 All NBA Defensive first teams and 1 second team.

Wade is soooooooooooo much better.
That's nice, but there are more advanced and better evaluative statistics available than how many points per game a guy gets (which is mostly a product of shots per game) and how many times a guy has been selected on a defensive team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../wadedw01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bryanko01.html

Over the last five years, Dwyane Wade has put up a higher PER than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a higher TS% than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a higher eFG% than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a better ORtg in every season except 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 (a tie), a better DRtg in every season except 2007-2008, more win shares in every season except 2007-2008, and a higher win share per 48 minute rate in every season except 2007-2008.

Wade had an injury filled and all-around poor season in 2007-2008, the season in which he had knee surgery. Other than that, though, there's no question which player has been better over this time. That would be Wade.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:35 AM   #5254
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LeBron knows it even better since he did quit on the Cavaliers.
If help could have been brought to him like it was for Kobe when he whined, I suspect we'd be looking at a Cavs championship right now. The problem was that it wasn't (unless you count a fading, aging Shaq). LeBron didn't demand a trade like Kobe was doing, though, he played through his contract and exercised his right as a FA. I certainly can't blame him for that, just as I don't blame Bosh for doing the same in Toronto. Seems to have worked out pretty good for the both of them. LeBron gets his championship to solidify his legacy as one of the NBA's future greats and Bosh gets to finally play an important role on a great team.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:56 AM   #5255
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
That's nice, but there are more advanced and better evaluative statistics available than how many points per game a guy gets (which is mostly a product of shots per game) and how many times a guy has been selected on a defensive team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../wadedw01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bryanko01.html

Over the last five years, Dwyane Wade has put up a higher PER than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a higher TS% than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a higher eFG% than Kobe Bryant in every season except 2007-2008, a better ORtg in every season except 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 (a tie), a better DRtg in every season except 2007-2008, more win shares in every season except 2007-2008, and a higher win share per 48 minute rate in every season except 2007-2008.

Wade had an injury filled and all-around poor season in 2007-2008, the season in which he had knee surgery. Other than that, though, there's no question which player has been better over this time. That would be Wade.
Should send those links in to the people who vote for All NBA teams. They clearly don't know as much basketball as you.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:08 AM   #5256
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Originally Posted by jd1020 View Post
Should send those links in to the people who vote for All NBA teams. They clearly don't know as much basketball as you.
Quality rebuttal to the overwhelming objective and unbiased statistical evidence of Wade's superiority over the last five years. Of course, you shouldn't exactly need stats to tell you any of this, but it does help.

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Old 06-22-2012, 03:18 AM   #5257
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Quality rebuttal to the overwhelming objective and unbiased estimated statistical evidence of Wade's superiority over the last five years. Of course, you shouldn't exactly need stats to tell you any of this, but it does help.
Fixed.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:32 AM   #5258
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Give up JD...you lost. KConnection 1, You 0.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:40 AM   #5259
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Give up JD...you lost. KConnection 1, You 0.
Rofl... Why would anyone give up and argument where someone is saying Wade > Kobe.

Kobe isn't still getting voted to All NBA teams while Wade isn't because they play the same position and Wade is better.

At this point in his career Kobe isn't as explosive as he was in his prime so I'd give Wade the edge in rushing the basket for an easy layup/dunk, especially now that Wade has a Batman. But beyond that there's nothing of Wade that I would take over Bryant. Bryant's still the better scorer, shot, free throw shooter, defender, and closer even with his aching knee and constant finger issues.

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Old 06-22-2012, 05:13 AM   #5260
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I have to say this with no animosity towards the Heat, Spoelstra is a below average coach lucky that he was coaching a team with this much talent.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:53 AM   #5261
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Sorry, America, you don't have LeBron James to kick around anymore

MIAMI

So, America, what do you have to say about LeBron James now?

That he lacks the core traits of a champion?

That he'll never be able to lead the Heat Superfriends to the second NBA title in franchise history?

Sorry, you can't make that claim anymore, not after the wild celebration LeBron's sustained brilliance set off here Thursday night.

How about the one that he can't finish out the games that matter the most? That he's not clutch?

Sorry, that knock is gone as well after LeBron put together another all-court masterpiece in this 121-106 blowout that stopped the favored Thunder in five games.

"How many assists did LeBron have tonight?" Heat owner Micky Arison asked in a champagne-soaked locker room.

"Thirteen," came the answer.

Along with 26 points and 11 rebounds.

Arison shook his head, laughed out loud and took another satisfied pull on his victory cigar.

Best player without an NBA championship?

That's no longer LeBron, not after he completed a dream season with a Finals MVP performance before an AmericanAirlines Arena crowd bathed in white and overflowing with appreciation and awe.

Maybe it's Thunder star Kevin Durant, still just 23.

Maybe it's Dwight Howard or Carmelo Anthony.

But it's not LeBron.

Finally.

Thankfully.

Fittingly.

"I don't know what people will say now," Heat reserve Juwan Howard barked amid the celebration. "He's done everything now. What are they going to try to beat him up about now? What'd he do wrong this time? He's LeBron James, world champion."

Let that soak in for a moment.

Has a nice ring to it, huh?

"Now what?" Howard demanded. "Give the guy a break!"

Did you see the way LeBron danced with his teammates as the final minutes of garbage time played out?

Did you see the way he threw teammate after teammate, coach after coach, into sloppy bearhugs, even as play continued on the court?

That was euphoria.

Pure euphoria.

What was LeBron thinking about that very moment?

"It's about damn time," he said.

On that, I think we can all agree.

"He's been playing this game his whole life," Dwyane Wade said of the friend he recruited to play here two summers ago. "Everyone wants to be a winner. Everyone wants to celebrate a championship. It's a dream for everyone. He's no different."

And so, as the final seconds ran out and confetti fell from the rafters, the crown at long last rested on the head of the self-appointed King.

You could almost see the pressure lift, the burden of unrealized potential disappear as LeBron, at 27, caught up with the white whale he's been chasing through nine professional seasons.

He smiled.

He removed the mouthpiece with the Roman numeral "16."

No such reminder of his personal failings would be needed anymore.

Instead, it was time to exhale.

"I dreamed about this opportunity and this moment for a long time, including last night," LeBron said. "My dream has become a reality now, and it's the best feeling I ever had."

For those closest to him, it was time to revel in the shared accomplishment.

"It's been quite a challenge for him," Heat center Chris Bosh said. "I think he's the most talked about superstar probably in the history of sports. He's taken it in stride. Of course he's made some mistakes. The part I've really admired about him is he's learned from his mistakes."

Owned up to them.

Vowed to do better.

"He's never sulked and complained and felt sorry for himself," Bosh said. "He just kept working. Put all his attention and all his love into the game. When you do that, things come back around for you. It just shows you can get over the hump if you really believe in yourself."

This whole idea of LeBron as America's Villain always seemed silly to me.

Yeah, I know, The Decision was overwrought and The Celebration premature.

But the level of vitriol directed at the game's most talented player was never in line with his perceived misdeeds.

In Australia, they call it the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Here, it just got to be plain nasty.

"It's unfortunate that somebody who has the qualities he has would be critiqued as negatively as he's been," Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said. "He embodies so many of the things you would want from a professional athlete."

And then the man blessed to coach a three-time MVP rattled off those qualities.

"He's never been in trouble," Spoelstra said. "He's a great teammate. He's honored all of his contracts. And he has a dream he's been trying to chase but he's been doing it within a team concept."

That enough for you, America?

Sorry, there's more.

"He's a fun-loving guy and a great human being to be around," Wade said. "Obviously a lot of stuff is said out there about him that's not true, but that's people who don't know LeBron James."

Added Spoelstra: "He's such a likable guy. Anybody that's ever come across LeBron, you like him after the first 10 seconds."

So why so much venom from so many?

"That's just the way this world works," Spoelstra said. "You can't win unless you win."

Mission accomplished.

So, America, what do you have to say about your favorite villain now?

mberardino@tribune.com
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...81,full.column


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Old 06-22-2012, 05:59 AM   #5262
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Burden finally lifted for Pat Riley, LeBron James and Miami Heat

BY DAN LE BATARD
DLEBATARD@MIAMIHERALD.COM

The champion architect smells like winning again as he emerges from the partying private suite, his white Armani shirt soaked in 2003 Dom Perignon and the scent of expensive cigars.

"This buys us our freedom," Pat Riley says with a smile. "The things that locked them up? They evaporated tonight. Now we grow. Now we evolve. Now comes the fun. This finally allows these players to be free."

This is not the finish, see? This is but the beginning. The champion architect did not put this together for just one night like this, no matter how loud and wonderful it was. Riley is greedy like that, and insatiable. A quarter-century ago, a generation ago, wearing sunglasses and slick hair as the fashion-model coach of the Lakers, Riley guaranteed a repeat championship while stepping to the microphone at the parade to celebrate the first. And now, even in the middle of this celebration that took two suffering years to arrive in Miami, as cars honk on the streets outside the arena and champagne spritzes in every direction, he's already looking beyond this celebration, dreaming about how his new champions will play now that they are finally unburdened. LeBron James was damn near unprecedented while cloaked in doubt this postseason. Imagine what he'll be now that he knows he's better than everyone else and finally has the crown to prove it.

One word to describe the last two years, Pat?

"Harrowing," he says. "Every single night, I took the losses personally. These guys took less money to come here because of promises we made them. I don't think I could have looked them in the eye if we didn't win the championship. The idea of that actually made me sick."

Nearby, James has misplaced his Finals MVP trophy, the waves of happiness that engulfed him at the end somehow sweeping it away to parts unknown. "Anybody find my trophy?" James keeps shouting to helpers and executives amid the celebratory bedlam, between interviews and hugs, as a panicked search breaks out around him.

You'd think he wouldn't let it out of his grip or sight, given how hard and long he worked for it, but it was not even the only treasure misplaced in this post-midnight Miami madness. Nick Arison, the owner's son, the team's CEO, lost his 2006 championship ring somehow in all the jubilance, dropped somewhere amid the dancing feet in the puddles of champagne that soaked the locker room. Riley has made a lot of parties like this happen over a lifetime, cars honking in the streets, a city floating off the ground. Pretty amazing when you consider that, just seven games ago, everybody was firing his coach and trading his players and wondering if the blueprint was flawed.

But LeBron James grew in these Finals, into the wrecking ball everybody had been waiting to see in the playoffs. The Heat front office badgered him all of last year to get in the post, but he needed to be humbled before accepting the guidance, and he ravaged the Thunder with his force around the rim. You should have heard what James said to his teammates in the privacy of the timeout huddle before this clinching game. "They have no idea what they are about to get," he said of Oklahoma City. "They have no idea." What they got was the end of the season on James' first triple double of the year, his 13 assists opening up the game for teammates like Mike Miller, who picked a pretty good time to make seven of eight three-pointers.

The smile on Miller's face afterward was toothy and permanent. It is also one of the few parts on his body that works correctly. Asked how he was able to push through the pain and the wincing to score more points than he has all season, Miller said, "That trophy in there. We love each other on this team. We really do. That makes it easy to sacrifice."

For the record, somebody finally located the Finals MVP trophy for James, and the misplaced ring of the owner's son. But the treasure chest was overflowing in Miami as a silenced America watched in awe and had to wonder what the champion architect's team might do now that it is free.

Remember James' introduction here?

The one that has been mocked for two poisonous years?

He was asked about championships, plural. And, giddy off the night's high and a new beginning, he said, "Not one, not two, not three...."

That stopped being a national joke Thursday night.

Now it sounds like something between a warning and a threat.


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/2...#storylink=cpy
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:50 AM   #5263
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A triple double in the clinching game. Damn. Congrats LeBron.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:56 AM   #5264
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props to both teams, okc will be back and i'm glad the idiots are looking like just what they are.

congrats to lebron and the heat
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:05 AM   #5265
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Great another Kobe vs Lebron argument. I will weigh in since I am objective.

All these facts aren't disputed by smart basketball objective observers:

1. MJ is the goat
2. Kobe is a Top 10 player in league history as of right now
3. Tim Duncan is a Top 10 player in league history
4. Lebron James is the best player in the NBA right now
5. Lebron could or mostly likely be a Top 10 player in league history when his career is done.
6. Kobe is and always has been a better player than Wade
7. The only stain on Lebron is that he had to go form a super team to win unlike MJ, Duncan or Kobe. Those players also haven't lost 2 Finals series either.

With all that being said I look forward to watching Lebron play basketball and hopefully he stays humble and doesn't revert to jerk Lebron.
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