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Old 08-02-2018, 09:00 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0?

The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:05 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Was that the Charles fumble game?
Yes, a good defense forced a fumble. But I hardly blame JC. You are facing a high powered offense and a high powered defense. You are up by 7 with under 2 min to go. You got 79 yards of free space. You just have to keep them out of the end zone and we didn't.

That's just a bit of a recurring theme I don't care for from Sutton. We saw it against Indy and Tennessee. And to an extent the Steelers. Not getting the stop when you need to stop.

I mean think about how many close games we won because Peters ripped a ball out or Berry picked off a 2pt conversion and ran it back? thre's been a lot of close games we've lost because the defense couldn't lock it down for a drive. and I blame it more on play calling than anything.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:06 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Yes, a good defense forced a fumble. But I hardly blame JC. You are facing a high powered offense and a high powered defense. You are up by 7 with under 2 min to go. You got 79 yards of free space. You just have to keep them out of the end zone and we didn't.

That's just a bit of a recurring theme I don't care for from Sutton. We saw it against Indy and Tennessee. And to an extent the Steelers. Not getting the stop when you need to stop.

I mean think about how many close games we won because Peters ripped a ball out or Berry picked off a 2pt conversion and ran it back? thre's been a lot of close games we've lost because the defense couldn't lock it down for a drive. and I blame it more on play calling than anything.
Didn't that good defense just give up a go ahead drive under 2 minutes?
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:08 AM   #63
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Didn't that good defense just give up a go ahead drive under 2 minutes?
That has nothing do with our defense, now does it? Yes they did. Which is why it was even more important that our defense capitalize. You can what if this shit all you want. The bottom line is OUR defense needed to make 1 stop in 80 yards and didn't.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:09 AM   #64
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Will go one of two ways. Defenses will play possession ball to throw our timing off. Or will go aerial and try to match us point by point. Pass heavy would be great because dime actually works to our advantage and Sutton can be opportunistic. Peters would have been an int machine. I hope our other guys can pick up the slack. I wouldn't mind seeing us gamble a lot more on D.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:11 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I agree we were gimped from a roster perspective last year. I am looking back over the course of Sutton's reign here and I see a lot of the same shit every year. Playing soft on the WR's. Huge gaps over the middle. Not blitzing in 3rd & long and unfortunately, not making enough key stops when you need them.

I will go back to the first game against Denver at KC. We are up by 7 against Manning. Denver has 0 TO's and 1:47 to go with the ball on their 20. First play he hits a guy wide open over the middle for 20+ yards.

We all know how it ended. And he had a compliment of good and healthy players that game. It was Monday night, at home and you're ahead by 7. You get 1 stop. 1 stop and you win. We lost.
Sean Smith was missing from the Denver game because he was serving a theee game suspension

Manning abused his backup, Jamell Fleming
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:14 AM   #66
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Sean Smith was missing from the Denver game because he was serving a theee game suspension

Manning abused his backup, Jamell Fleming
1 player. Can't claim 1 player cause that shit happens every year. He was suspended. Sutton knew it. And I remember him getting burned on the TD and IIRC, he had no help. I could be wrong.

Again though, 1 player, 4 players, no players, Sutton has a tendency to go Andy Reid when we have a lead. I can't think of many games our defense has put their foot on the throat of other teams.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:20 AM   #67
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The Chiefs D will be the best in the AFC West this year and top 10 in the NFL.

Mark it down.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:20 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I agree we were gimped from a roster perspective last year. I am looking back over the course of Sutton's reign here and I see a lot of the same shit every year. Playing soft on the WR's. Huge gaps over the middle. Not blitzing in 3rd & long and unfortunately, not making enough key stops when you need them.

I will go back to the first game against Denver at KC. We are up by 7 against Manning. Denver has 0 TO's and 1:47 to go with the ball on their 20. First play he hits a guy wide open over the middle for 20+ yards.

We all know how it ended. And he had a compliment of good and healthy players that game. It was Monday night, at home and you're ahead by 7. You get 1 stop. 1 stop and you win. We lost.
This Sutton narrative on CP is so rich... let's take a look at "Sutton's reign":

2013: 19.1 points against/game good for 6th in the league
2014: 17.6 points against/game good for 2nd in the league
2015: 17.9 points against/game good for 3rd in the league
2016: 19.4 points against/game good for 7th in the league
2017: 21.2 points against/game good for 15th in the league

By your own words you just stated that the Chiefs last season were gimped by their roster, yet somehow the Chiefs still managed to have an average defense. Last year was the first year a Sutton defense allowed an average of more than 20 points a game. Last season I think was the first time you could say since Andy Reid took over that the offense was the strength of this team and not the defense.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:21 AM   #69
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1 player. Can't claim 1 player cause that shit happens every year. He was suspended. Sutton knew it. And I remember him getting burned on the TD and IIRC, he had no help. I could be wrong.

Again though, 1 player, 4 players, no players, Sutton has a tendency to go Andy Reid when we have a lead. I can't think of many games our defense has put their foot on the throat of other teams.
Not defending Sutton, but his 2013 defense stunk. All smoke and mirrors

His best defense was 2014, his second best was 2015

The playoff loss in 2016 was easily predicted because our run defense was far too soft to handle Pittsburgh. The 2013 loss was expected because our pass defense was atrocious in 2013. The 2017 loss wasn't surprising because our defense was a bit of a sieve

But comparing a defense with Houston, Berry, Fuller, and Hitchens to a 2002-2004 defense is a joke. People are selling the D extremely short
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:28 AM   #70
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The Chiefs D will be the best in the AFC West this year and top 10 in the NFL.

Mark it down.
I hope you're right....
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:30 AM   #71
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:35 AM   #72
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Again, I am not so much worried about the players as I am the guy calling the defensive plays.
Bob Sutton isn't the best coordinator, but he's not an incompetent ****tard, either.
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I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:38 AM   #73
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Bob Sutton isn't the best coordinator, but he's not an incompetent ****tard, either.
He surely has his moments.....there is absolutely no way at all, none, no ****ing way that you can ever justify a player like Justin Houston covering a player like Antonio Brown unless Brown is in the wildcat or something. Especially 50 ****ing yards down field.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:39 AM   #74
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Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:43 AM   #75
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Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.
Well, the stats again, say otherwise a bit.

If the 90's defense is what we're shooting for, well, I guess good luck.
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