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Old 02-17-2018, 12:38 PM  
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Mueller Destroys "total hoax," "made-up story," and "greatest witch hunt" Lies

Guess Trump can now stop spouting his lies about Russian interference in the election, eh?

Even Trump's National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster responds to the indictments of 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election, saying evidence of Russian interference is "incontrovertible."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/polit...sel/index.html

Robert Mueller just made it impossible for Trump to call the special counsel probe a 'total hoax'

Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

On Friday afternoon, the Justice Department announced that special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election.

Most of these people do not live in the United States, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Russia won't be extraditing them any time soon. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The indictments of a baker's dozen of Russians gives us a very clear window into not only the depth and breadth of the Mueller investigation, but also makes crystal clear what the Russians wanted in the 2016 election and the elaborate measures they undertook to make it happen.

This paragraph stands out:

"Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."

OK. So what we know from that paragraph of the charging documents, which you can read in full here, is this:
  • By "early to mid-2016," Russians had decided to use whatever means at their disposal to help Donald Trump win.
  • The Russians bought political ads on social media sites and organized political rallies to achieve those goals.
  • Russians, disguising their identities, "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign" in an attempt to "coordinate political activities."
  • None of that is a smoking gun of collusion.
  • "Unwitting" members of Trumpworld working with Russians, who didn't identify themselves as Russians, is not the same as a willful effort on behalf of members of the Trump campaign to actively collude with the Russian government.
  • But what this latest set of indictments proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that, yes, Russia staged an aggressive and elaborate effort to influence the 2016 election.
  • This was a multi-pronged campaign -- social media, in-person meetings, political rallies -- by the Russians to beat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. It employed hundreds of people.
  • That analysis, of course, jibes with the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community in 2017 that Russia actively sought to influence the 2016 election in support of Trump.
  • What it runs directly counter to is Trump's ongoing -- and persistent -- attempts to cast the entire special counsel investigation as nothing more than a politically motivated sideshow.

    Here's a sampling of Trump's recent tweets touching on Mueller's investigation.
  • "This memo totally vindicates 'Trump' in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead)." (2/3/18)
  • "The single greatest Witch Hunt in American history continues. There was no collusion, everybody including the Dems knows there was no collusion, & yet on and on it goes. Russia & the world is laughing at the stupidity they are witnessing. Republicans should finally take control!" (1/10/18)
  • "The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?" (5/8/17)

There's lots (and lots) more tweets and quotes just like that from the President. Trump has suggested the attempted election hacking could have been perpetrated by China or even as a "guy sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds."

You get the idea. Despite the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community -- including Trump's CIA Director Mike Pompeo and his FBI Director Christopher Wray -- that Russia engaged in a coordinated effort to meddle in the 2017 election, Trump still wasn't convinced.

Of course, this changes nothing when it comes to how Trump will respond. Even Friday afternoon, Trump tweeted about the Russian indictments, once again beating the "no collusion" drum.

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President," Trump tweeted. "The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

But if it was very hard to hold the Trumpian position -- it might have been Russia, it might have been someone else! -- with a shred of intellectual honesty prior to Friday, it's impossible now.

Consider what the Mueller investigation has already done:
  • Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates is reportedly on the verge of signing a plea agreement and cooperating with Mueller. Gates faces a variety of charges, including money laundering and other financial crimes.
  • Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort faces a variety of charges of financial crimes
  • 13 Russians have been indicted on participating in a broad-scale attempt to throw the election to Trump.

That is not the stuff of witch hunts and hoaxes. Those are real-life charges which carry at least the possibility of real jail time.

And they all make a simple point: It's long past time for Trump to stop name-calling an investigation that has uncovered a massive effort for a foreign government to meddle in a US presidential election.
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #16
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I guess technically the headline is true, but I'm failing to feel the GOTCHA part of the entire story, especially considering that from the jump the #neverTrumpers were only worried about Trump colluding with Russia, not Russia meddling just because they could.
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:45 PM   #17
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So if you have a witch hunt and you find 20 witches right off the bat, is it still a witch hunt?
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
A clear sign that Kristol knows that the Mueller investigation is a dead end for his cause.


Is it almost over?
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:46 PM   #19
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I guess technically the headline is true, but I'm failing to feel the GOTCHA part of the entire story, especially considering that from the jump the #neverTrumpers were only worried about Trump colluding with Russia, not Russia meddling just because they could.
The title is not true.

The witch hunt angle is about unlawful Trump/Russia collusion. Nothing from the indictments, or the press conference, came within a billion light years of destroying the claim of a witch hunt.

The indictments don't even charge them for improper interference in an election. They were charged with wire fraud, bank fraud and conspiracy to defraud the U.S.
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:54 PM   #20
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:56 PM   #21
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Kotterthread nearly OHthread Bad.
Ah look the fake conservative at it again.

What do you think Ronald Reagan would say about Donald Trump bending over for Russia?
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Ah look the fake conservative at it again.

What do you think Ronald Reagan would say about Donald Trump bending over for Russia?
Ronnie is rolling over in his grave...these phony ass opportunistic "conservatives," so worried about adultery, so worried about trade deficits, so worried about deficits....UNTIL 'their' lame-assed puppet and cock holster for Putin 'wins' a flawed election...they are a complete joke. J-O-K-E. Joke. Ronnie would have nothing to do with these azzholes.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Ah look the fake conservative at it again.

What do you think Ronald Reagan would say about Donald Trump bending over for Russia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Ronnie is rolling over in his grave...these phony ass opportunistic "conservatives," so worried about adultery, so worried about trade deficits, so worried about deficits....UNTIL 'their' lame-assed puppet and cock holster for Putin 'wins' a flawed election...they are a complete joke. J-O-K-E. Joke. Ronnie would have nothing to do with these azzholes.
As if either of you have the slightest ****ing clue what Reagan would think
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:32 PM   #24
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Only problem with all of this is that the indictments show that Russia meddled in the election, but at the news conference announcing all of this the DOJ dude said that no Americans were indicted and there was no Americans knowingly involved in said meddling. That's a pretty strong statement indicating there was no "collusion".
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by tmax63 View Post
Only problem with all of this is that the indictments show that Russia meddled in the election, but at the news conference announcing all of this the DOJ dude said that no Americans were indicted and there was no Americans knowingly involved in said meddling. That's a pretty strong statement indicating there was no "collusion".
Only if you mistakenly think this investigation is nearing it's conclusion, when it seems to many observers it's just getting revved up....

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Old 02-17-2018, 03:39 PM   #26
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As if either of you have the slightest ****ing clue what Reagan would think
Even a dumbshit such as yourself can figure out that Ronald Reagan... a.k.a. the President who referred to Russia/Soviet Union as "The Evil Empire", wouldn't exactly be thrilled at the idea of Russia systematically interfering with a US Presidential Election.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Even a dumbshit such as yourself can figure out that Ronald Reagan... a.k.a. the President who referred to Russia/Soviet Union as "The Evil Empire", wouldn't exactly be thrilled at the idea of Russia systematically interfering with a US Presidential Election.
'


These sorts of shenanigans have been going on since long before Reagan and were almost certainly going on during the Reagan presidency.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Even a dumbshit such as yourself can figure out that Ronald Reagan... a.k.a. the President who referred to Russia/Soviet Union as "The Evil Empire", wouldn't exactly be thrilled at the idea of Russia systematically interfering with a US Presidential Election.
Only a dumbass such as you, would say 'Trump bends over for Russia!'... the witch hunt he refers to, is the one trying to tie him to all of this

You people simply cannot deal with the fact Don won, so he just had to have colluded with Russia in order to steal it from Hillary
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:45 PM   #29
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Only a dumbass such as you, would say 'Trump bends over for Russia!'... the witch hunt he refers to, is the one trying to tie him to all of this
If the glove fits...
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:46 PM   #30
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If the glove fits...
LULZ
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