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Old 02-17-2018, 12:38 PM  
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Mueller Destroys "total hoax," "made-up story," and "greatest witch hunt" Lies

Guess Trump can now stop spouting his lies about Russian interference in the election, eh?

Even Trump's National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster responds to the indictments of 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election, saying evidence of Russian interference is "incontrovertible."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/polit...sel/index.html

Robert Mueller just made it impossible for Trump to call the special counsel probe a 'total hoax'

Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

On Friday afternoon, the Justice Department announced that special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election.

Most of these people do not live in the United States, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Russia won't be extraditing them any time soon. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The indictments of a baker's dozen of Russians gives us a very clear window into not only the depth and breadth of the Mueller investigation, but also makes crystal clear what the Russians wanted in the 2016 election and the elaborate measures they undertook to make it happen.

This paragraph stands out:

"Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."

OK. So what we know from that paragraph of the charging documents, which you can read in full here, is this:
  • By "early to mid-2016," Russians had decided to use whatever means at their disposal to help Donald Trump win.
  • The Russians bought political ads on social media sites and organized political rallies to achieve those goals.
  • Russians, disguising their identities, "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign" in an attempt to "coordinate political activities."
  • None of that is a smoking gun of collusion.
  • "Unwitting" members of Trumpworld working with Russians, who didn't identify themselves as Russians, is not the same as a willful effort on behalf of members of the Trump campaign to actively collude with the Russian government.
  • But what this latest set of indictments proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that, yes, Russia staged an aggressive and elaborate effort to influence the 2016 election.
  • This was a multi-pronged campaign -- social media, in-person meetings, political rallies -- by the Russians to beat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. It employed hundreds of people.
  • That analysis, of course, jibes with the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community in 2017 that Russia actively sought to influence the 2016 election in support of Trump.
  • What it runs directly counter to is Trump's ongoing -- and persistent -- attempts to cast the entire special counsel investigation as nothing more than a politically motivated sideshow.

    Here's a sampling of Trump's recent tweets touching on Mueller's investigation.
  • "This memo totally vindicates 'Trump' in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead)." (2/3/18)
  • "The single greatest Witch Hunt in American history continues. There was no collusion, everybody including the Dems knows there was no collusion, & yet on and on it goes. Russia & the world is laughing at the stupidity they are witnessing. Republicans should finally take control!" (1/10/18)
  • "The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?" (5/8/17)

There's lots (and lots) more tweets and quotes just like that from the President. Trump has suggested the attempted election hacking could have been perpetrated by China or even as a "guy sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds."

You get the idea. Despite the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community -- including Trump's CIA Director Mike Pompeo and his FBI Director Christopher Wray -- that Russia engaged in a coordinated effort to meddle in the 2017 election, Trump still wasn't convinced.

Of course, this changes nothing when it comes to how Trump will respond. Even Friday afternoon, Trump tweeted about the Russian indictments, once again beating the "no collusion" drum.

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President," Trump tweeted. "The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

But if it was very hard to hold the Trumpian position -- it might have been Russia, it might have been someone else! -- with a shred of intellectual honesty prior to Friday, it's impossible now.

Consider what the Mueller investigation has already done:
  • Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates is reportedly on the verge of signing a plea agreement and cooperating with Mueller. Gates faces a variety of charges, including money laundering and other financial crimes.
  • Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort faces a variety of charges of financial crimes
  • 13 Russians have been indicted on participating in a broad-scale attempt to throw the election to Trump.

That is not the stuff of witch hunts and hoaxes. Those are real-life charges which carry at least the possibility of real jail time.

And they all make a simple point: It's long past time for Trump to stop name-calling an investigation that has uncovered a massive effort for a foreign government to meddle in a US presidential election.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:50 PM   #31
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Even a dumbshit such as yourself can figure out that Ronald Reagan... a.k.a. the President who referred to Russia/Soviet Union as "The Evil Empire", wouldn't exactly be thrilled at the idea of Russia systematically interfering with a US Presidential Election.
Who so far have you identified is thrilled with Russian interference?

What Outcomes have you identified that were clearly impacted by this effort?

When you hear they did bad things, have you seen the examples of what they did?
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:51 PM   #32
KCChiefsFan88 KCChiefsFan88 is offline
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These sorts of shenanigans have been going on since long before Reagan and were almost certainly going on during the Reagan presidency.
Nothing compared to the scale of the current situation.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:56 PM   #33
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Um..this is from CNN.

CNN. The same CNN that represents the democrat party. It's their mouthpiece.

Integrity is hard to earn and can be lost quickly.

CNN.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:58 PM   #34
KCChiefsFan88 KCChiefsFan88 is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Who so far have you identified is thrilled with Russian interference?

What Outcomes have you identified that were clearly impacted by this effort?

When you hear they did bad things, have you seen the examples of what they did?
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:04 PM   #35
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Nothing compared to the scale of the current situation.
That depends on your opinion about the different eras, I suppose, but it's certainly not any kind of absolute fact.

In just one example of earlier shenanigans (70"s, in this case), they forged FBI paperwork to make it appear that a Henry Jackson was a homosexual, in order to ruin his chances.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:05 PM   #36
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
And now you're being an idiot.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
I hope I don't accidentally start a war on Facebook.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
kotter things.
This. Kotter must be in his manic phase. He's having trouble filtering out his embarrassing impulses.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:25 PM   #39
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I sure hope Americans meddle next time. But if not, as long as it's the truth about liberals, Americans should count our blessings that the truth about liberals get exposed by a concerned global community.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:27 PM   #40
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So if you have a witch hunt and you find 20 witches right off the bat, is it still a witch hunt?
Those weren't witches. The witch hunt is for Trump (or at least senior Trump cadre) complicity. Or maybe it's a snipe hunt.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:29 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
Do you think he is part of a larger plot? And where do you see Obama's fingerprints in all this. War is a rather serious thing.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Nothing compared to the scale of the current situation.
No it is not an act of war. If it was then our doing it to other countries is an act of war too. Besides, it was Reagan who talked with Russians to make peace. The same Russians today which is no longer the Soviet Empire. This is no different than what Trump proposed in his campaign.

There is no reason for us to have detente today. Instead our Establishment has been provoking the bear on it's borders and interfering in their back yard something we would not tolerate. Where's your outrage on that you hypocrite? Remember, we're the ones invading the world and also inviting them at the same time inside.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:32 PM   #43
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Only problem with all of this is that the indictments show that Russia meddled in the election, but at the news conference announcing all of this the DOJ dude said that no Americans were indicted and there was no Americans knowingly involved in said meddling. That's a pretty strong statement indicating there was no "collusion".
If you pay close attention though, he keeps qualifying things with statements like "this indictment doesn't allege [American's knowingly involved, etc.]". That leaves open the possibility of collusion, IMO.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:33 PM   #44
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Mueller's investigation proves that the entire made up story about Trump's involvement was a sham. It raises even more questions on Obama's tenure since this happened on his watch, beginning in 2014.

Also, Flynn's case is about to be thrown out in light of altered 302's. Manafort's case will likely be thrown out for violation of his 4th amendment rights. I wouldn't be surprised if the others are to.

Oh...and the Mueller indictment on the Russians open's the door for Christopher Steele to be indicted, along with HRC and the DNC and everyone else involved. They hired a foreign ex spy to interfere with the election. There is sworn testimony and financial records confirming this.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:33 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
No. You don't lay out an allegation like that without specifics.
Which details, and how they constitute an act of war.
Make your case.
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