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Old 02-17-2018, 12:38 PM  
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Mueller Destroys "total hoax," "made-up story," and "greatest witch hunt" Lies

Guess Trump can now stop spouting his lies about Russian interference in the election, eh?

Even Trump's National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster responds to the indictments of 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election, saying evidence of Russian interference is "incontrovertible."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/polit...sel/index.html

Robert Mueller just made it impossible for Trump to call the special counsel probe a 'total hoax'

Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

On Friday afternoon, the Justice Department announced that special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election.

Most of these people do not live in the United States, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Russia won't be extraditing them any time soon. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The indictments of a baker's dozen of Russians gives us a very clear window into not only the depth and breadth of the Mueller investigation, but also makes crystal clear what the Russians wanted in the 2016 election and the elaborate measures they undertook to make it happen.

This paragraph stands out:

"Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."

OK. So what we know from that paragraph of the charging documents, which you can read in full here, is this:
  • By "early to mid-2016," Russians had decided to use whatever means at their disposal to help Donald Trump win.
  • The Russians bought political ads on social media sites and organized political rallies to achieve those goals.
  • Russians, disguising their identities, "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign" in an attempt to "coordinate political activities."
  • None of that is a smoking gun of collusion.
  • "Unwitting" members of Trumpworld working with Russians, who didn't identify themselves as Russians, is not the same as a willful effort on behalf of members of the Trump campaign to actively collude with the Russian government.
  • But what this latest set of indictments proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that, yes, Russia staged an aggressive and elaborate effort to influence the 2016 election.
  • This was a multi-pronged campaign -- social media, in-person meetings, political rallies -- by the Russians to beat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. It employed hundreds of people.
  • That analysis, of course, jibes with the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community in 2017 that Russia actively sought to influence the 2016 election in support of Trump.
  • What it runs directly counter to is Trump's ongoing -- and persistent -- attempts to cast the entire special counsel investigation as nothing more than a politically motivated sideshow.

    Here's a sampling of Trump's recent tweets touching on Mueller's investigation.
  • "This memo totally vindicates 'Trump' in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead)." (2/3/18)
  • "The single greatest Witch Hunt in American history continues. There was no collusion, everybody including the Dems knows there was no collusion, & yet on and on it goes. Russia & the world is laughing at the stupidity they are witnessing. Republicans should finally take control!" (1/10/18)
  • "The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?" (5/8/17)

There's lots (and lots) more tweets and quotes just like that from the President. Trump has suggested the attempted election hacking could have been perpetrated by China or even as a "guy sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds."

You get the idea. Despite the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community -- including Trump's CIA Director Mike Pompeo and his FBI Director Christopher Wray -- that Russia engaged in a coordinated effort to meddle in the 2017 election, Trump still wasn't convinced.

Of course, this changes nothing when it comes to how Trump will respond. Even Friday afternoon, Trump tweeted about the Russian indictments, once again beating the "no collusion" drum.

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President," Trump tweeted. "The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

But if it was very hard to hold the Trumpian position -- it might have been Russia, it might have been someone else! -- with a shred of intellectual honesty prior to Friday, it's impossible now.

Consider what the Mueller investigation has already done:
  • Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates is reportedly on the verge of signing a plea agreement and cooperating with Mueller. Gates faces a variety of charges, including money laundering and other financial crimes.
  • Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort faces a variety of charges of financial crimes
  • 13 Russians have been indicted on participating in a broad-scale attempt to throw the election to Trump.

That is not the stuff of witch hunts and hoaxes. Those are real-life charges which carry at least the possibility of real jail time.

And they all make a simple point: It's long past time for Trump to stop name-calling an investigation that has uncovered a massive effort for a foreign government to meddle in a US presidential election.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
No. You don't lay out an allegation like that without specifics.
Which details, and how they constitute an act of war.
Make your case.
The left thinks that asserting something over and over makes it true.
Kinda like Goebbels.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:40 PM   #47
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:42 PM   #49
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If you pay close attention though, he keeps qualifying things with statements like "this indictment doesn't allege [American's knowingly involved, etc.]". That leaves open the possibility of collusion, IMO.
In a lucid moment, patty gets something right...
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
No. You don't lay out an allegation like that without specifics.
Which details, and how they constitute an act of war.
Make your case.
The indictment yesterday is pretty clear... the Russians went to great lengths to try to interfere with the US Presidential Election in 2016... read the indictment for the full details.

I frankly could care less about the collusion drama... the bigger issue is the fact that Russia interfered in a detailed and comprehensive manner in a US Presidential Election.

I don't see this as a partisan issue... as Mitt Romney said, Russia is our biggest geopolitical threat and this proves it.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:46 PM   #51
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:50 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The left thinks that asserting something over and over makes it true.
Kinda like Goebbels.
Donald Trump was a Democrat and supported Democrats until about 5 minutes ago so your statement applies to Trump, which is why I refuse to support him.

He's a fake conservative.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
The indictment yesterday is pretty clear... the Russians went to great lengths to try to interfere with the US Presidential Election in 2016... read the indictment for the full details.

I frankly could care less about the collusion drama... the bigger issue is the fact that Russia interfered in a detailed and comprehensive manner in a US Presidential Election.

I don't see this as a partisan issue... as Mitt Romney said, Russia is our biggest geopolitical threat and this proves it.
Interference is not an Act of War. So far as you are employing it, it's not even a definitely defined term.

The gravity of your accusations doesn't survive on the floridity of your prose alone.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Interference is not an Act of War. So far as you are employing it, it's not even a definitely defined term.

The gravity of your accusations doesn't survive on the floridity of your prose alone.
It is hard to figure out on which level you are more idiotic... your blind support of Alex Smith or your defense of the Russians.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:57 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
It is hard to figure out on which level you are more idiotic... your blind support of Alex Smith or your defense of the Russians.
I rather imagine a lot of reality is hard for you to figure.

And I'm not defending the Russians. I'm criticizing your attempt to substitute ominous adjectives for fact.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:05 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Ultimately, that could be true if your TrumpCuck wet dreams come true...

However, that part is still under investigation; time will tell....be patient.



That Trumpbots were too stupid to realize they were being played is not surprising. The switch to the secondary goal of discord AFTER the election in now way precludes possible collusion yet to be corroborated...be patient.
Yes. Be patient! Only 7 more years until Trump is out of office.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:27 PM   #57
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Yes. Be patient! Only 7 more years until Trump is out of office.
Oh, ye of little faith...just LOOK what Mueller has done in LESS than 1 year!

I suspect the 2nd year will be even more eventful and entertaining. Stay tuned; patience is a virtue!
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Oh, ye of little faith...just LOOK what Mueller has done in LESS than 1 year!

I suspect the 2nd year will be even more eventful and entertaining. Stay tuned; patience is a virtue!
Yeah, look..he has indicted 13 people that will never be tried let alone convicted of anything.....powerful stuff!
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:33 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
Donald Trump was a Democrat and supported Democrats until about 5 minutes ago so your statement applies to Trump, which is why I refuse to support him.

He's a fake conservative.
Donald Trump campaigned pretty openly on his beliefs. He's for big government spending on public projects, is socially liberal, wants a big military, etc...

You can call that fake conservative, or whatever the hell you want. Your label is meaningless when he's governing in a manner that largely follows his campaign direction.

Really, the label of "conservative" has been so bastardized that it's almost as politically meaningless as the old definition of "liberal".
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:44 PM   #60
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The mantra that Russia wanted Trump to win is garbage, their purpose all along was to sow discord and undermine faith in our elections... these 13 indicted Russians organized simultaneous pro AND anti-Trump demonstrations in NYC

They arent backing ANYONE, their goal was to stir shit... and they've done a fantastic job of it

Nobody on the right would be pushing this shit if Hillary won. This is a purely 100% liberal narrative, from folks who cannot accept they lost
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