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Old 02-17-2018, 12:38 PM  
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Mueller Destroys "total hoax," "made-up story," and "greatest witch hunt" Lies

Guess Trump can now stop spouting his lies about Russian interference in the election, eh?

Even Trump's National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster responds to the indictments of 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election, saying evidence of Russian interference is "incontrovertible."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/polit...sel/index.html

Robert Mueller just made it impossible for Trump to call the special counsel probe a 'total hoax'

Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

On Friday afternoon, the Justice Department announced that special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election.

Most of these people do not live in the United States, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Russia won't be extraditing them any time soon. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The indictments of a baker's dozen of Russians gives us a very clear window into not only the depth and breadth of the Mueller investigation, but also makes crystal clear what the Russians wanted in the 2016 election and the elaborate measures they undertook to make it happen.

This paragraph stands out:

"Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."

OK. So what we know from that paragraph of the charging documents, which you can read in full here, is this:
  • By "early to mid-2016," Russians had decided to use whatever means at their disposal to help Donald Trump win.
  • The Russians bought political ads on social media sites and organized political rallies to achieve those goals.
  • Russians, disguising their identities, "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign" in an attempt to "coordinate political activities."
  • None of that is a smoking gun of collusion.
  • "Unwitting" members of Trumpworld working with Russians, who didn't identify themselves as Russians, is not the same as a willful effort on behalf of members of the Trump campaign to actively collude with the Russian government.
  • But what this latest set of indictments proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that, yes, Russia staged an aggressive and elaborate effort to influence the 2016 election.
  • This was a multi-pronged campaign -- social media, in-person meetings, political rallies -- by the Russians to beat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. It employed hundreds of people.
  • That analysis, of course, jibes with the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community in 2017 that Russia actively sought to influence the 2016 election in support of Trump.
  • What it runs directly counter to is Trump's ongoing -- and persistent -- attempts to cast the entire special counsel investigation as nothing more than a politically motivated sideshow.

    Here's a sampling of Trump's recent tweets touching on Mueller's investigation.
  • "This memo totally vindicates 'Trump' in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead)." (2/3/18)
  • "The single greatest Witch Hunt in American history continues. There was no collusion, everybody including the Dems knows there was no collusion, & yet on and on it goes. Russia & the world is laughing at the stupidity they are witnessing. Republicans should finally take control!" (1/10/18)
  • "The Russia-Trump collusion story is a total hoax, when will this taxpayer funded charade end?" (5/8/17)

There's lots (and lots) more tweets and quotes just like that from the President. Trump has suggested the attempted election hacking could have been perpetrated by China or even as a "guy sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds."

You get the idea. Despite the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community -- including Trump's CIA Director Mike Pompeo and his FBI Director Christopher Wray -- that Russia engaged in a coordinated effort to meddle in the 2017 election, Trump still wasn't convinced.

Of course, this changes nothing when it comes to how Trump will respond. Even Friday afternoon, Trump tweeted about the Russian indictments, once again beating the "no collusion" drum.

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President," Trump tweeted. "The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

But if it was very hard to hold the Trumpian position -- it might have been Russia, it might have been someone else! -- with a shred of intellectual honesty prior to Friday, it's impossible now.

Consider what the Mueller investigation has already done:
  • Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians during the 2016 campaign and is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.
  • Former deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates is reportedly on the verge of signing a plea agreement and cooperating with Mueller. Gates faces a variety of charges, including money laundering and other financial crimes.
  • Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort faces a variety of charges of financial crimes
  • 13 Russians have been indicted on participating in a broad-scale attempt to throw the election to Trump.

That is not the stuff of witch hunts and hoaxes. Those are real-life charges which carry at least the possibility of real jail time.

And they all make a simple point: It's long past time for Trump to stop name-calling an investigation that has uncovered a massive effort for a foreign government to meddle in a US presidential election.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:47 PM   #61
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I guess technically the headline is true, but I'm failing to feel the GOTCHA part of the entire story, especially considering that from the jump the #neverTrumpers were only worried about Trump colluding with Russia, not Russia meddling just because they could.
Because it IS a nonsense story. Not one liberal in the media would care one iota about this fake story had Hillary won and Trump and/or Fox News conjured it up.


They'd simply laugh and say "Sore losers! We told you he wouldn't admit defeat!"



Trump has every reason to push back against this, because it's done solely to delegitimize his election. And the GOP needs to fight it hard
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Yeah, look..he has indicted 13 people that will never be tried let alone convicted of anything.....powerful stuff!
The tip of the proverbial ice berg? More to come, with the stage being set as it is...

Patience, my friend....patience. TIME will tell...
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:54 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
The tip of the proverbial ice berg? More to come, with the stage being set as it is...

Patience, my friend....patience. TIME will tell...
Right, we've been hearing "shoes" for 20 months.....how many times have we heard The Don was headed towards indictment so far?

How many times has that been right?

Yeah, you keep praying that the indictment of 13 people that will amount to absolutely 0 legal actions is somehow the tip of the iceberg..

Maybe by 2024 you might be close....
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:58 PM   #64
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I guess there’s no need for a trial since indictments now prove crimes.



Anyway, I think the Russia-collusion story isn’t advanced much by this indictment and remains unproven beyond the dossier that we now know was a fiction created by Clinton hacks Blume thal and Shear that was provided to Christopher Steel and then provided to the FBI courtesy of its creator Fusion GPS who paid the wife of a senior FBI agent to walk it into the Bureau (who then walked it into a FISA court).
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:08 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
I guess there’s no need for a trial since indictments now prove crimes.



Anyway, I think the Russia-collusion story isn’t advanced much by this indictment and remains unproven beyond the dossier that we now know was a fiction created by Clinton hacks Blume thal and Shear that was provided to Christopher Steel and then provided to the FBI courtesy of its creator Fusion GPS who paid the wife of a senior FBI agent to walk it into the Bureau (who then walked it into a FISA court).

You mean indicting people who are not in this country and never will be isn't a significant advancement? I love how the media is all a twitter about Mueller puffing his chest at people he knows will never, ever respond.

Never mind the fact that he knows good and damn well this indictment is hollow and will never amount to a damn thing.

He might as well be trash-talking a dead man...
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:14 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
The tip of the proverbial ice berg? More to come, with the stage being set as it is...

Patience, my friend....patience. TIME will tell...
Are you referring to the IG report? It will not be kind to Obamas DOJ and FBI...
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:32 PM   #67
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We should indict Kim Jung Un for something, perhaps human rights violations, just for fun.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by |Zach| View Post
All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:01 PM   #69
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The details in Mueller's indictment yesterday are an act of war by Russia. The mere attempts by the Russians to interfere with the US Presidential Election, regardless of their ultimate success are an act of war.

Yet the President of the United States doesn't even condemn it.

Why not?
Act of war good god get a grip sister. The US then has been committing acts of war all over the globe then.
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
I guess there’s no need for a trial since indictments now prove crimes.



Anyway, I think the Russia-collusion story isn’t advanced much by this indictment and remains unproven beyond the dossier that we now know was a fiction created by Clinton hacks Blume thal and Shear that was provided to Christopher Steel and then provided to the FBI courtesy of its creator Fusion GPS who paid the wife of a senior FBI agent to walk it into the Bureau (who then walked it into a FISA court).
This story is just as important as trump colluding with russia. Hopefully grassley sticks to his guns until he gets the answers to what really happened.

Imagine the MSM 2 years from now if the trump campaign did the same thing to the democratic nominee.
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Right, we've been hearing "shoes" for 20 months.....how many times have we heard The Don was headed towards indictment so far?

How many times has that been right?

Yeah, you keep praying that the indictment of 13 people that will amount to absolutely 0 legal actions is somehow the tip of the iceberg..

Maybe by 2024 you might be close....
DUDE....you keep saying 2 years....20 months....will you just shut the fugg up already...

Mueller was appoiinted in MAY 17, 2017.....9 months ago....are you THIS stupid? Seriously???




When we finally get to the two year point, you MAY have a point....right now, you don't...
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:34 PM   #72
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
DUDE....you keep saying 2 years....20 months....will you just shut the fugg up already...

Mueller was appoiinted in MAY 17, 2017.....9 months ago....are you THIS stupid? Seriously???




When we finally get to the two year point, you MAY have a point....right now, you don't...
I know, Trump is done...again

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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:53 PM   #74
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:56 PM   #75
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I know, Trump is done...again

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Don't give up, little fella....my only point is your habit of EXAGGERATING when it suits your purpose gets old, especially when passing it off as fact...

Especially when your main point is HOW LONG it's "been going on" as if to discredit it...

9 MONTHS is not 2 YEARS, duh...hmmmkayyy, got it douchebag? Quit pretending otherwise...
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