Football Pete Prisco on Geno Smith - Page 12

ShowtimeSBMVP · 03-28-2013, 03:36 PM

Geno Smith has potential but not the overall game to be a top-10 pick
March 28, 2013 11:32 AM ET

3 | Comments

At the league meetings earlier this month, I asked two general managers I respect greatly to assess the quarterback class in this year's draft, and both had similar responses.

They don't like it.

"Are we trying to like these guys more than we should?" one of the general managers said. "I don't love any of them."

Not even Geno Smith?
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"No, not even him," he said. "I want the guy at the top to jump out at me on tape, the wow plays, the big throws, the kind of guy you know will be your guy for the next 10 years. I don't see that from him. Can he be good? I am not sure he can. Can he be special? Doubt it. And if you are taking that guy at the top, you want special."

I watched a lot of Smith on Saturdays during the college season. He looked impressive. He had a good arm, made a lot of nice throws and led a high-flying offense at West Virginia.

So as I dove into his tape this week, I did so with an open mind. Were these general managers being too harsh? Was all the talk that Geno Smith should be a top-5 pick accurate?

After studying him closely, I will say this: There is a lot to like, but if I were the GM making the pick Smith wouldn't be my choice in the top 10 or even the top 20.

There are too many flaws.

In fairness to Smith, he played behind a horrible offensive line at West Virginia last year. He was pressured on a regular basis. But the flip side is he played with two outstanding receivers in Tavon Austin, a likely first-round pick, and Steadman Bailey, a likely second-round pick.

In the games I studied, Smith made some impressive throws. He also did some nice things when he moved away from pressure. He moved and reloaded without running. I like that.

But I wanted to like him a lot more than I did. I am a quarterback guy. This league is all about them now. They are 70 percent of the game.

I just didn't get that from Smith. I didn't see a future star. Maybe work can change that. But only time will tell. Here is breakdown of what I saw after studying Smith in several categories.
Arm Strength

When I watched him on television, I thought Smith had a big, powerful arm. After studying his tape, I will say his arm is just OK. He can make all the throws, but there are too many plays where he doesn't seem to have the zip you want from a big-time passer.

That doesn't mean his arm isn't NFL good enough. It certainly is that. But it would have to rank in the middle of the league's passers in terms of arm strength right now. Good, not great.

There were several plays where it appeared he tried to use just his arm, rather than stepping into throws. That's when the ball fell short or skipped to a receiver. I saw him do that on several deep outs.

He also seemed to try and finesse the deep balls, rather than sticking them with a nice throw. Sometimes, he got away with it because of the speed of the college defensive backs. But that won't work in the NFL. He has to be stronger with those throws and drive the football.

He threw a touchdown pass to Bailey against Texas Tech, and even that looked to be a little more of a touch pass than it should have been.

He did make a nice strong throw inside against Oklahoma State to Ryan Nehlen for a touchdown, showing off his arm as he fit it between two defenders. So he can do it. I think some of the problems are from his mechanics, when he just tries to use his arm.
Toughness

This is one area that impressed me. He took a beating at times, but kept getting up and making plays. It's tough to play quarterback behind a line as bad as he had. The pressure was relentless at times.

What I really liked was when I watched him scramble. Smith kept his head up and made plays when he scrambled. This wasn't a quarterback who just tucked it and ran. There were times, however, when he felt what I call "phantom" pressure. There wasn't anyone around him, but he felt it and moved out of the pocket.

That could be because of the poor line up front and the many shots he took. But that's not a good thing. You have to stay on the spot as long as you can if there isn't anybody flushing you out.

But this isn't an area of concern for the most part. He keeps his eyes down the field when the pressure is coming at him. And he can move and reset to throw without taking off to run. That's a plus.
Ability to see the field

Smith does move his head from side-to-side when he is reading the field. I like that. For a young player, he did a solid job at times coming off receivers. But there were other times where I wanted more.

There seemed to be times where he just wouldn't pull the trigger on an open receiver, and came off to a safer throw. That would scare me moving forward. You have to take the chances when they are there.

One such play came against Oklahoma State. On that play, he play-faked to a back out of the shotgun, then faked a reverse to Austin from left to right and set up to throw. He had Bailey wide open in the middle in front of the safeties and behind the linebacker who took a false step on the reverse fake. But he didn't throw it.

He also had J.D. Woods deep on the right sideline wide open, but never threw it. He instead waited for Austin to get into the right flat and he threw it to him for a short gain. That was a safe decision. That isn't what top-level quarterbacks do.

Another time against Iowa State, he had Austin wide open on a cross and held it too long. Eventually, Austin crossed the field and Smith tried to hit him with a soft throw that was easily batted away.
Mechanics

This was a trouble spot for me. His footwork needs a lot of work. He just seemed to use his arm for too many throws. That's a problem. A good quarterback has to step into his throws. That's where the velocity comes from most of the time. Too many times Smith didn't use his legs the right way. And his passes floated.

Most of these bad throws came on intermediate or deep passes. He did a nice job of setting and firing on the short passes. That isn't to say he won't drive it some of the time, but I saw some bad habits.

Against Iowa State, he had Bailey on a deep post for what should have been an easy score. But he tried to touch pass the ball with his arm and it floated. Bailey made a nice adjustment to make the catch for a big gain, but that should have been a touchdown.

Smith has worked to improve his footwork, and scouts at his Pro Day said it was noticeably better. But what happens in the heat of the battle? Does he go back to being more of an arm thrower?
Accuracy

This was a problem at times. Some of it, like I said above, is due to the poor mechanics. But some of it was waiting to throw to open windows all the time. The anticipation wasn't there. You have to feel receivers coming open. At times, Smith seemed to wait and wait and wait and wait.

This is a danger area for NFL quarterbacks. Windows are small and they open and shut quickly. He has to be better at anticipating them coming open, not waiting for them to do so. Some scouts wonder if he can improve that.

At other times, Smith would come off his primary receiver and throw to the other side and skip a pass because he didn't use his body the right way.

There were too many times where I expected passes on the receiver's hands, but they were a little off the target, and the receiver was forced to make a tough catch.
Summary

Smith is a case of a guy being forced up the draft boards. I would take him in the second round. He is in need of some refining. I hear he's a great kid who loves to put in the work, which could make the transition a lot easier. But as far as a top-10 pick, I wouldn't do it. There are simply too many flaws in terms of what I want from my quarterback on the next level. There is growth potential with this kid, but that's not what you want when you draft a kid high in the first round. I just wanted to see more.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...e-a-top10-pick

Ebolapox · 03-30-2013, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Wrong.

dammit. I was kinda hoping I'd get a few creative insults thrown my way

(psst... can you at least throw a **** YOU ASSHOLE?)

**RealSNR** · 03-30-2013, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And 99.99% of the members here can't tell the difference between you and him, either.

I told you back in October, there would be hell to pay with your incessant bullshit about Geno Smith.

Welcome to Hell, ****.

You brought this bullshit on yourself.

I eagerly anticipate your next apology thread, you ****ing psycho.

**RealSNR** · 03-30-2013, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

don't take this the wrong way, but I can quote several of your posts where you've gone after them unprovoked.

it's a two way street, man. it's clear that something is off here. you've always been a bit on tilt, but this seems WAY moreso. hope all is well with you, but it doesn't take a freaking pshrink to see that you're using the board as a scratching post.

Get ****ed. There will be hell to pay. You are done, shit ****er. You ill-educated tone deaf moron. I will end you.

(How's that?)

Ebolapox · 03-30-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Get ****ed. There will be hell to pay. You are done, shit ****er. You ill-educated tone deaf moron. I will end you.

(How's that?)

throw an angry gif on there and I'd think that was from hamas.

AussieChiefsFan · 03-30-2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

throw an angry gif on there and I'd think that was from hamas.

Like this?

MeatRock · 03-30-2013, 12:08 AM

Looks to me like Dane is firing back at the obsessive Geno crowd, as anyone has noticed, his post's are all in Geno threads. There are a shitload of them. Anyone that had a different view on who to draft got insulted so what goes around comes around i suppose.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-30-2013, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

don't take this the wrong way, but I can quote several of your posts where you've gone after them unprovoked.

it's a two way street, man. it's clear that something is off here. you've always been a bit on tilt, but this seems WAY moreso. hope all is well with you, but it doesn't take a freaking pshrink to see that you're using the board as a scratching post.

As I've said before, I am SO tired of this small band of ****tards ruining every ****ing thread, related or unrelated, with "Geno Smith".

Geno Smith is NOT a legitmate first round QB. Period, end of story.

Teams are trading out at will to avoid drafting him. SNR and his band of assholes have spammed every ****ing thread for the past six months with "Geno Smith", despite the fact that every legitimate news source has said he's NOT a Franchise QB.

It doesn't matter if it's Peter King or Pete Prisco or Mike Florio or anyone else with their hand on the pulse of NFL front offices that have said that Smith ISN'T a Franchise QB, SNR and his band of IQ challenged miscreants have labeled anyone that disagreed with their assessment as "Assholes, blowhard, dumb****s, morons", etc. and so on.

He's wrong. His "Party of Five" is wrong. Smith is just a guy.

So, do us all a favor, SNR, and shut the **** up.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-30-2013, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

You brought this bullshit on yourself.

I eagerly anticipate your next apology thread, you ****ing psycho.

Just like BossChief.

WEAK.

Not that I expected more. Your posts, prior to the past six months, have been uninteresting and boring.

At least you made a name for yourself. Good on you.

Now, shut the **** up.

penbrook · 03-30-2013, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

As I've said before, I am SO tired of this small band of ****tards ruining every ****ing thread, related or unrelated, with "Geno Smith".

Geno Smith is NOT a legitmate first round QB. Period, end of story.

Teams are trading out at will to avoid drafting him. SNR and his band of assholes have spammed every ****ing thread for the past six months with "Geno Smith", despite the fact that every legitimate news source has said he's NOT a Franchise QB.

It doesn't matter if it's Peter King or Pete Prisco or Mike Florio or anyone else with their hand on the pulse of NFL front offices that have said that Smith ISN'T a Franchise QB, SNR and his band of IQ challenged miscreants have labeled anyone that disagreed with their assessment as "Assholes, blowhard, dumb****s, morons", etc. and so on.

He's wrong. His "Party of Five" is wrong. Smith is just a guy.

So, do us all a favor and shut the **** up.

Daniel Jeremiah who was a Scout for around 8 years said he only sees Geno Smith as the only qb to be a franchise qb in this draft. There is a scouts perspective.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 03-30-2013, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penbook

Daniel Jeremiah who was a Scout for around 8 years said he only sees Geno Smith as the only qb to be a franchise qb in this draft. There is a scouts perspective.

And Daniel said he's not a top 10 QB but some team will reach.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-30-2013, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penbook

Daniel Jeremiah who was a Scout for around 8 years said he only sees Geno Smith as the only qb to be a franchise qb in this draft. There is a scouts perspective.

Daniel Jeremiah hasn't been unemployed by any NFL teams for years.

Shut the **** up, n00b.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 03-30-2013, 12:14 AM

Daniel Jeremiah ✔ @MoveTheSticks

I'm studying Geno Smith tape. Reminds me of Alex Smith coming out of Utah

Daniel Jeremiah ✔ @MoveTheSticks

Geno Smith and Alex Smith are very similar in build and athleticism. Geno has a little more arm and Alex was a little more accurate.

**RealSNR** · 03-30-2013, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeatRock

Looks to me like Dane is firing back at the obsessive Geno crowd, as anyone has noticed, his post's are all in Geno threads. There are a shitload of them. Anyone that had a different view on who to draft got insulted so what goes around comes around i suppose.

Geno talk stayed in Geno Smith threads. If somebody baselessly said, "Geno Smith will be a bust like Vince Young" (happened a LOT) then people were questioned on why they thought that way. Usually they were the first ones to snap back. IN THE GENO SMITH THREADS.

You have your way of remember how Geno Smith was talked about on Chiefs Planet this past season. And it's not even remotely close to what actually took place, though. There wasn't a band of posters that hurled insults and infected threads with "**** off if you don't like Geno."

This is what htismaqe was trying to tell people before he got frustrated with the Alex Smith trade and left. A shame, because he's a superior football poster to 99% of what comes across this forum.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 03-30-2013, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Geno talk stayed in Geno Smith threads. If somebody baselessly said, "Geno Smith will be a bust like Vince Young" (happened a LOT) then people were questioned on why they thought that way. Usually they were the first ones to snap back. IN THE GENO SMITH THREADS.

You have your way of remember how Geno Smith was talked about on Chiefs Planet this past season. And it's not even remotely close to what actually took place, though. There wasn't a band of posters that hurled insults and infected threads with "**** off if you don't like Geno."

This is what htismaqe was trying to tell people before he got frustrated with the Alex Smith trade and left. A shame, because he's a superior football poster to 99% of what comes across this forum.

Not true at all if anyone made a thread about another top 10 prospect they got killed.

**BossChief** · 03-30-2013, 12:17 AM

Damn near every respected poster on this site LOVES Geno Smith.

You know why, Dane?

We watched the games and posted in the game threads the whole year. It's not just 5 posters, if you post a poll right now on if you want Geno or anybody else with the pick, 90% will vote for Geno.

03-28-2013, 03:36 PM
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $3726009	Pete Prisco on Geno Smith Geno Smith has potential but not the overall game to be a top-10 pick March 28, 2013 11:32 AM ET 3 \| Comments At the league meetings earlier this month, I asked two general managers I respect greatly to assess the quarterback class in this year's draft, and both had similar responses. They don't like it. "Are we trying to like these guys more than we should?" one of the general managers said. "I don't love any of them." Not even Geno Smith? More 2013 NFL Draft coverage 2013 NFL Draft Team spotlights Mock drafts Big Board Subscribe to newsletter "No, not even him," he said. "I want the guy at the top to jump out at me on tape, the wow plays, the big throws, the kind of guy you know will be your guy for the next 10 years. I don't see that from him. Can he be good? I am not sure he can. Can he be special? Doubt it. And if you are taking that guy at the top, you want special." I watched a lot of Smith on Saturdays during the college season. He looked impressive. He had a good arm, made a lot of nice throws and led a high-flying offense at West Virginia. So as I dove into his tape this week, I did so with an open mind. Were these general managers being too harsh? Was all the talk that Geno Smith should be a top-5 pick accurate? After studying him closely, I will say this: There is a lot to like, but if I were the GM making the pick Smith wouldn't be my choice in the top 10 or even the top 20. There are too many flaws. In fairness to Smith, he played behind a horrible offensive line at West Virginia last year. He was pressured on a regular basis. But the flip side is he played with two outstanding receivers in Tavon Austin, a likely first-round pick, and Steadman Bailey, a likely second-round pick. In the games I studied, Smith made some impressive throws. He also did some nice things when he moved away from pressure. He moved and reloaded without running. I like that. But I wanted to like him a lot more than I did. I am a quarterback guy. This league is all about them now. They are 70 percent of the game. I just didn't get that from Smith. I didn't see a future star. Maybe work can change that. But only time will tell. Here is breakdown of what I saw after studying Smith in several categories. Arm Strength When I watched him on television, I thought Smith had a big, powerful arm. After studying his tape, I will say his arm is just OK. He can make all the throws, but there are too many plays where he doesn't seem to have the zip you want from a big-time passer. That doesn't mean his arm isn't NFL good enough. It certainly is that. But it would have to rank in the middle of the league's passers in terms of arm strength right now. Good, not great. There were several plays where it appeared he tried to use just his arm, rather than stepping into throws. That's when the ball fell short or skipped to a receiver. I saw him do that on several deep outs. He also seemed to try and finesse the deep balls, rather than sticking them with a nice throw. Sometimes, he got away with it because of the speed of the college defensive backs. But that won't work in the NFL. He has to be stronger with those throws and drive the football. He threw a touchdown pass to Bailey against Texas Tech, and even that looked to be a little more of a touch pass than it should have been. He did make a nice strong throw inside against Oklahoma State to Ryan Nehlen for a touchdown, showing off his arm as he fit it between two defenders. So he can do it. I think some of the problems are from his mechanics, when he just tries to use his arm. Toughness This is one area that impressed me. He took a beating at times, but kept getting up and making plays. It's tough to play quarterback behind a line as bad as he had. The pressure was relentless at times. What I really liked was when I watched him scramble. Smith kept his head up and made plays when he scrambled. This wasn't a quarterback who just tucked it and ran. There were times, however, when he felt what I call "phantom" pressure. There wasn't anyone around him, but he felt it and moved out of the pocket. That could be because of the poor line up front and the many shots he took. But that's not a good thing. You have to stay on the spot as long as you can if there isn't anybody flushing you out. But this isn't an area of concern for the most part. He keeps his eyes down the field when the pressure is coming at him. And he can move and reset to throw without taking off to run. That's a plus. Ability to see the field Smith does move his head from side-to-side when he is reading the field. I like that. For a young player, he did a solid job at times coming off receivers. But there were other times where I wanted more. There seemed to be times where he just wouldn't pull the trigger on an open receiver, and came off to a safer throw. That would scare me moving forward. You have to take the chances when they are there. One such play came against Oklahoma State. On that play, he play-faked to a back out of the shotgun, then faked a reverse to Austin from left to right and set up to throw. He had Bailey wide open in the middle in front of the safeties and behind the linebacker who took a false step on the reverse fake. But he didn't throw it. He also had J.D. Woods deep on the right sideline wide open, but never threw it. He instead waited for Austin to get into the right flat and he threw it to him for a short gain. That was a safe decision. That isn't what top-level quarterbacks do. Another time against Iowa State, he had Austin wide open on a cross and held it too long. Eventually, Austin crossed the field and Smith tried to hit him with a soft throw that was easily batted away. Mechanics This was a trouble spot for me. His footwork needs a lot of work. He just seemed to use his arm for too many throws. That's a problem. A good quarterback has to step into his throws. That's where the velocity comes from most of the time. Too many times Smith didn't use his legs the right way. And his passes floated. Most of these bad throws came on intermediate or deep passes. He did a nice job of setting and firing on the short passes. That isn't to say he won't drive it some of the time, but I saw some bad habits. Against Iowa State, he had Bailey on a deep post for what should have been an easy score. But he tried to touch pass the ball with his arm and it floated. Bailey made a nice adjustment to make the catch for a big gain, but that should have been a touchdown. Smith has worked to improve his footwork, and scouts at his Pro Day said it was noticeably better. But what happens in the heat of the battle? Does he go back to being more of an arm thrower? Accuracy This was a problem at times. Some of it, like I said above, is due to the poor mechanics. But some of it was waiting to throw to open windows all the time. The anticipation wasn't there. You have to feel receivers coming open. At times, Smith seemed to wait and wait and wait and wait. This is a danger area for NFL quarterbacks. Windows are small and they open and shut quickly. He has to be better at anticipating them coming open, not waiting for them to do so. Some scouts wonder if he can improve that. At other times, Smith would come off his primary receiver and throw to the other side and skip a pass because he didn't use his body the right way. There were too many times where I expected passes on the receiver's hands, but they were a little off the target, and the receiver was forced to make a tough catch. Summary Smith is a case of a guy being forced up the draft boards. I would take him in the second round. He is in need of some refining. I hear he's a great kid who loves to put in the work, which could make the transition a lot easier. But as far as a top-10 pick, I wouldn't do it. There are simply too many flaws in terms of what I want from my quarterback on the next level. There is growth potential with this kid, but that's not what you want when you draft a kid high in the first round. I just wanted to see more. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...e-a-top10-pick
Posts: 23,752

03-30-2013, 12:08 AM	#171
MeatRock Seasons in the Abyss Join Date: Jan 2010 Casino cash: $10010596	Looks to me like Dane is firing back at the obsessive Geno crowd, as anyone has noticed, his post's are all in Geno threads. There are a shitload of them. Anyone that had a different view on who to draft got insulted so what goes around comes around i suppose.
Posts: 4,746

03-30-2013, 12:14 AM	#177
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $3726009	Daniel Jeremiah ✔ @MoveTheSticks I'm studying Geno Smith tape. Reminds me of Alex Smith coming out of Utah Daniel Jeremiah ✔ @MoveTheSticks Geno Smith and Alex Smith are very similar in build and athleticism. Geno has a little more arm and Alex was a little more accurate.
Posts: 23,752

03-30-2013, 12:17 AM	#180
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1954088	Damn near every respected poster on this site LOVES Geno Smith. You know why, Dane? We watched the games and posted in the game threads the whole year. It's not just 5 posters, if you post a poll right now on if you want Geno or anybody else with the pick, 90% will vote for Geno. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,096